Understanding homeopathy

[Carn]

BSM

One interesting observation.

You start calling names when ever you are cornered. A peculiar trait different from others. Did you notice?

You can be helped. Try Nux.vomica 200, once in a week, before going to bed.

You will tend to become more calm and serene.

How likely is this according to homeopathy, that Nux.vomica 200 will cause BSM to rave less about homeopathy?
A test showing that would be rather convincing, BSM to be nice towards homeopathy.
BTW i think he is still calm and serene, you know we small humans often mistake a bid apes grumbling and turning from one side to the other as anger.

Murthy

P.S: BTW, is there any 'modern medicine' to cure such tendencies?

Modern medicine is normally only used to do something against anger without reason.
To suppress anger, that is invoked due too good reasons(and this is it in this case), is pretty dangerous, as it is a important survival trait(in your language, "it is against the natural human balance to suppress rightful anger, if it is not too strong"). Therefore you cannot get rid of it, without also getting rid of other important mental abilities, but a possible way might be a joint for BSM everytime before he reads your posts.

Carn

 

[Darat]

BSM

One interesting observation.

You start calling names when ever you are cornered. A peculiar trait different from others. Did you notice?

You can be helped. Try Nux.vomica 200, once in a week, before going to bed.

You will tend to become more calm and serene.

Murthy

P.S: BTW, is there any 'modern medicine' to cure such tendencies?

You do realise that this post is just as much about "calling someone names" as BSMs?

I always thought a remedy had to be personalised to someone? I didn’t think a homeopath could just hand out a "bottle of pills"?

You do also realise that if you were a medical practitioner and was prescribing a drug that was known to have some affect what you posted would be considered at least professionally unethical and in some countries actual illegal i.e. prescribing without consultation?

Obviously for a homeopathic practitioner there are no such professional ethical considerations.

And so you don’t have to read between the lines of my last comment I’ll clarify that it was meant to be a pointed comment directed at you since in your post to BSM you are contradicting things you have claimed earlier. Furthermore I believe your post also demonstrates why you should never, ever be a position where someone is trusting their health to your quackery.

 

[Mojo]

The bolded letter created interest in me. Can you explain more? Does it indicate effect of differant substances on us through our skin(as stones, metals etc.)?

If you had actually read the link you posted, you would have found that the specific heat of a substance is a measure of the amount of energy needed to increase the temperature of a specific amount of the substance by a specific amount. And, as you have repeatedly been told (and even posted yourself on at least one occasion) energy is just energy. There are not different (note spelling) types of energy for different (note spelling) substances.

 

[Kumar]

.. energy is just energy. There are not different (note spelling) types of energy for different (note spelling) substances.

Ok, I understood the spelling, energy & its different(note spelling correction) amounts etc. Thanks.

 

[Gavinimurthy]

We don't have any motto of profit in promoting homeopathy.
it is only out of concern for the suffering human beings,and, to tell them that there is a better way, to treat their ailments.

There is a great deal of individualisation in suggesting Nux.vomica.why didn't I sugggest it to Carn or Hans, for example?

I don't understand onething.If you claim, the homeopathic pills contain nothing, why is it that an M.D's prescription is required in U.S.A?

This seems to be a paradox to me.

Murthy

 

[Carn]

why didn't I sugggest it to Carn or Hans, for example?

Maybe because we are not as nasty as BSM?

Carn

 

[BillyJoe]

SORRY, I HAVE BEEN OFF-LINE FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

Murthy,

If you place your finger in a flame, heat will be transferred from the flame to your finger because the flame is hotter than your finger. If sufficient heat is transferred to your finger the tissues of your finger will be damaged.

SO, PLEASE, DO NOT PUT YOUR BURNT FINGER IN HOT WATER.

To minimize the damage, try to remove the excess heat from your finger. Cold running water is best. If not available just cold, non-running water will do and move your finger round a bit to simulate running water.
But, remember, not enough heat also damages your finger. If no cold water is available but you have ice, use it....but use it cautiously. Do not overdo the heat loss. I believe you will have heard of the term "frost-bite".

Is it getting any clearer?

regards,
BillyJoe

 

[Barbrae]

I don't understand onething.If you claim, the homeopathic pills contain nothing, why is it that an M.D's prescription is required in U.S.A?

This seems to be a paradox to me.

Murthy

Hi Murthy, I figured I'd come clear this up before one of the skeptics blasts you for it. In the US homeopathic remedies are classified as over the counter drugs and as such can be purchased by anyone at their pharmacy or local health food store.

I think what you may be confused about is that only and MD can write presciptions (well, also dentists, nurse practitioners, vets... but you getthe picture.) so that a homeopath, like me, can't legally "prescribe" remedies to a client. What that means is that you need to be careful with your wording. YOu can recommend something but can not use any terms relating to "cure, prescibing, drugs, diagnosing, etc". Hope that clarifies things.

 

[Kumar]

Re: SORRY, I HAVE BEEN OFF-LINE FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

To minimize the damage, try to remove the excess heat from your finger. Cold running water is best.

For how much time heat can persist in burned finger?

 

[Gavinimurthy]

thanks Barbrae for the clarification.

Murthy

 

[Darat]

We don't have any motto of profit in promoting homeopathy.
it is only out of concern for the suffering human beings,and, to tell them that there is a better way, to treat their ailments.

So homeopaths don’t charge for their "services" and companies that make homeopathic remedies don’t make a profit?

There is a great deal of individualisation in suggesting Nux.vomica.why didn't I sugggest it to Carn or Hans, for example?

Liar. (And I mean that word in its literal and very negative definition).

How can there be any degree of any "individualism" in suggesting that someone

1) Has a problem with anger
2) That specific problem with anger can be treated with a specific "homepathic" treatment

When all you have done is read some posts on a forum? You have not (publicly at least) had any type of exchange of posts with BSM that are at all personal or could be construed as consulting BSM about any possible symptoms he may need treating for. What you are saying is that you don’t need any consultation with a homeopath to get a specific remedy?

Remember what you did was tell someone to take a treatment you claim is very effective for something that you can’t even know they are “suffering” from.

Thankfully since homeopathy doesn’t work you can’t cause BSM any harm even if he does take your advice. However it does make for an interesting thought exercise e.g. I can consider what your actions here can tell me about you.

I’ll consider two alternatives for someone who is (seemingly) promoting homeopathy

1) someone who is deluded and believes homeopathy works
2) someone who isn’t deluded and knows homeopathy doesn’t work but is willing (for what ever reasons) to pretend it does.

So let’s see how you actions match against the above.

Well if you are deluded and think homeopathy works then in my opinion your suggestion of a “remedy” to someone who has never consulted with you in anyway (e.g. by posts, spoken to, seen and so on) means you are totally and utterly morally bankrupt and without ethics. Why? Because it would mean you are willing to potentially seriously harm someone just to try and insult them because you believe they called you a name. (After all if you believe your “remedies” work then you told him to take something that you can have no idea of what effect it may have on BSM.)

And if you don’t think it works but still promotes it as if it does then you are a liar and if you actually “practice” it I think you would have to be the absolute most despicable type of person on the planet e.g. someone who knowing exploits people when they are at their most vulnerable.

I don't understand onething.If you claim, the homeopathic pills contain nothing, why is it that an M.D's prescription is required in U.S.A?

This seems to be a paradox to me.

Murthy

I've never said they contain "nothing".

So in summary of this post:

1) Please confirm that homeopaths do not make any profit from their "practice" i.e. “ We don't have any motto of profit…”

2) Please confirm that companies offering "homeopathic" remedies for sale do not make a any profit. i.e. “ We don't have any motto of profit…”

3) Please explain why your statement about offering an "individualised" treatment to BSM is not a lie. i.e. “…There is a great deal of individualisation in suggesting Nux.vomica.”

4) Please confirm that a homeopath dose not need to engage in a consultation with someone before offering a treatment for a condition the person has not even sought treatment for. “…There is a great deal of individualisation in suggesting Nux.vomica….”


(Also note whilst I am being direct and very blunt in my use of language (e.g. “lie” “despicable”) this is so they can be no confusion between us since a discussion requires both sides to try and ensure they are understood by the other.)


(Edited for a mustly most.)

 

[Gavinimurthy]

The behaviour of the person is always taken into consideration ,along with other things, for a homopathic prescription. Sometimes, the behaviour itself will reveal the remedy.A forum will also, provide us insights into, how a man behaves, normally.


Many times, it is possible to identify the person's constitutional remedy, by having a cup of coffee in a restaurant, while discussing mundane matters, and closely observing him.

That is the beuaty of homeopathy.

Can't you people understand ,a light hearted comment?

For your clarification, I can assure you even if BSM heeds to my advice, and takes Nux.V as suggested, it will not do any harm to him, on the contrary it willl definitely help him.

We normally don't give unsolicited prescriptions, but, sometimes suggest remedies to our friends, when we feel they need them very badly. It is upto them to follow our advice or not.

Murthy

 

[Darat]

The behaviour of the person is always taken into consideration ,along with other things, for a homopathic prescription. Sometimes, the behaviour itself will reveal the remedy.A forum will also, provide us insights into, how a man behaves, normally.


Many times, it is possible to identify the person's constitutional remedy, by having a cup of coffee in a restaurant, while discussing mundane matters, and closely observing him.

That is the beuaty of homeopathy.

Can't you people understand ,a light hearted comment?

For your clarification, I can assure you even if BSM heeds to my advice, and takes Nux.V as suggested, it will not do any harm to him, on the contrary it willl definitely help him.

We normally don't give unsolicited prescriptions, but, sometimes suggest remedies to our friends, when we feel they need them very badly. It is upto them to follow our advice or not.

Murthy

Would you address my points?

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

You start calling names when ever you are cornered. A peculiar trait different from others. Did you notice?

What are you talking about, man? Which names have I called you?

When do you think I was cornered? Dream on! It'll be a perfect day in Hell for treating burns when you have me cornered, sunshine.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Er...hang on just a cotton pickin' minute. You stated your stupid advice about using warm water as established fact, based on a conversation with a chef. Now you're down to "Who knows tomorrow it will be "slightly warm water." ".

Nifty backtracking there, Murthy, but it didn't go unnoticed.

Now, what was that we were saying about dangerous amateurs messing with medical problems?

Was this where you reckoned I was cornered and calling you a name?

Let's look at that post.

1. I am making it clear that you are contradicting yourself. You are in the corner, not anyone else.

2. You have arrogated to yourself the term "dangerous amateur", though it was clearly a parenthetical comment made to other readers about people who we might choose to regard as dangerous amateurs.

However, since you would like to be compared to a dangerous amateur, let us see how well that hat fits. Well, until 4 years ago you claim to have been sceptical about homeopathy. You are not a doctor. You are not a nurse In those 4 years you imply that you have either been trained in or taught yourself homeopathy. In either case, you remain an amateur when it comes to medical matters.

You have given advice in this thread that could cause serious harm to a burns victim. The only reason why little harm would be caused by your advice is if the heat exposure was so trivial it would make very little difference whether you run hot or cold water over your finger or just suck it and swear under your breath. If there was a more serious burn even to an isolated area your advice is utterly misconceived and would cause serious harm to the victim of a more serious burn. That makes you dangerous.

The provenance of your advice on the treatment of burns appears to be a conversation with a chef. That confirms you as an amateur and a believer in old wives tales.

I hope that clears the matter up satisfactorily.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Lest any doubt should remain about how burns should be treated, here is a list of useful sources, so that the unwary should not be misled by any dangerous amateurs dispensing silly quack advice, say, perhaps, on an internet forum.

 

[MRC_Hans]

By the way, think about the differences between liquids and solids and consider for a moment why water might be better at drawng the excess heat out of burned tissue even though its temperature is higher than ice.

Uhhh, let's get this clear once and for all: The reason for cooling a burn is not primarily to remove the excess heat, although it will serve that purpose, too. Excess heat will dissipate quite quickly on its own however. The reason for cooling a burn is to stop or slow the inflammative reactions that the burn trauma starts in the tissue, and which is mainly destructive because it is aimed at fighting infection, and there is rarely infection in a burn.

Fire or hot objects have not been around us for very long, on the evolutionary timescale, so we have a number of reactions to trauma that are aimed at fighting infection, but which are actually more destructive than useful in the case of sterile trauma. Thus, it is helpful to cool the burn area, because this slows down or stops those reactions.

The reason cold, but not icy water (or ice) is recommended, is that excessive cold will introduce its own trauma.

The reason that this is comparatively new knowledge is that our knowledge of the body's reactions to trauma has progressed greatly in the last few decades, with the advent of microbiology and cell chemistry.

Hans

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Uhhh, let's get this clear once and for all: The reason for cooling a burn is not primarily to remove the excess heat, although it will serve that purpose, too. Excess heat will dissipate quite quickly on its own however. The reason for cooling a burn is to stop or slow the inflammative reactions that the burn trauma starts in the tissue, and which is mainly destructive because it is aimed at fighting infection, and there is rarely infection in a burn.

As I understand it, both factors are important, but as I have been taught (wanton appeal to authority!) the simple effect of getting rid of the excess heat was of long overlooked importance while the more complex benefits of cooling were being considered.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Aiming to pursue this with Hans, here is another portion of crow for Murthy to eat;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11900942

This one's interesting. No p-values in th abstract, but post-burn temp still raised 1hr later, albeit slightly, if no treatment applied;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10741593

Another bite of crow, mr murthy?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15649611

"Adequate first aid by water cooling affected the outcome of the patient group with burn extent less than 30% TBSA, which was shown by the decrease of length of stay"

You may choose to discuss why it might not matter when burn area >30% TBSA, but the basic point is well demonstrated.

Cold water is better than lukewarm:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3986639

Murthy, you'll love this one. He cites references that are 1600 years older than Sam H, so he must be right:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=6184139


http://www.medbc.com/annals/review/vol_15/num_4/text/vol15n4p187.asp

"Cooling a burned area is an emergency measure that both clinically and experimentally has always shown benefits.9,12-16 Cryotherapy improves tissue reaction against thermal damage. This is demonstrated by the reduction of hyperthermia in the after-burn period, the reduction of inflammation, the exchanges in the microcirculation (less capillary permeability), and the reduction of necrotic and fibrous tissue. There is also a reduction in the release of histamine, prostaglandins, and thromboxin, as well as a reduction of the aerobic metabolism and a drop in the production of lactic acid and metabolic acidosis. Increased epithelial cell growth has also been observed with cryotherapy.2-4,6,17-20 Experimentally, immersion in cold water has significantly reduced pain and burn-induced mortality from 64.5 to 2.58%.14 The optimal temperature for maximum benefit has yet to be determined, and experiments have been conducted with water temperatures ranging from 8 to 30 °C"

 

[Chris Haynes]

The bolded letter created interest in me. Can you explain more? Does it indicate effect of differant substances on us through our skin(as stones, metals etc.)?

Table of specific heat capacities of some substances is given on
this link.

No, I will not try to educate you in basic physics. In the past I have pointed out basic chemistry and physics websites, and others have tried to patiently answer your questions -- but you seem to distort the information you are given. If you wish to learn more, than go into a bookstore and pick up some basic science education books.

editted to correct touch-pad assisted mis-spelling