Truther responses to Millette WTC Dust paper

[NoahFence]

GlennB and NoahFence - I think you haven't spotted that Poetry Hound's post is tongue in cheek.

No, I caught it. I was attempting to be consistent, with twoofers and reality lovers both. I've commented on the recent 'lurker' phenomenon regarding twoofers, so I thought I should note others, too.....

 

[GlennB]

It's hard to tell, lately

eta: though, being sober enough to click on "more posts" by PH would have furnished a clue or two

 

[fourtoe]

I'll ask you, as I've asked quite a few folks in recent weeks:

What happened that caused you to return to JREF?

Haven't posted in over a year, before then, over a year, before then, a year and a half.

Very curious posting history.

I'm a little offended that my lapse in posting in 2011 has not been suspicious enough for people to think...what exactly?

I lurked these forums for at least 4 months before I actually started posting, 911 CTs take time to take in due to their idiocy.

 

[carlitos]

That plus the name change. ¡Sospechoso!

 

[Oystein]

Lookie what Frank Legge claims:

It is perfectly clear that the sample of dust Milette is using is quite different from the WTC dust. The grey side he says is steel, while the grey side of the WTC dust is not metal but is an oxide. No point in looking further.

Luckily, someone paid attention:

"In addition, the gray-layer material demands further study." -page 22/25
http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.pdf

"Chemist and 9/11 Truth activist Kevin Ryan has refused to provide samples of red-gray chips he believes are thermitic, or even to sign off on the chips Dr. Millette would provide." - C Mohr
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7893219&postcount=1257

Ryan Admitting they tried to get him and his samples involved......

"Mohr has tried to secure samples that he could say were obtained from me personally" - Kevin Ryan
http://digwithin.net/2012/02/17/whe...n-response-to-energetic-materials-at-the-wtc/

"It is perfectly clear that the sample of dust Milette is using is quite different from the WTC dust." - Frank Legge

How convenient. And predictable

By the way: Some over-zealous folks here drove jimd3100 off the JREF forum a short while ago. Must admit I wasn't totally innocent

 

[NoahFence]

I'm a little offended that my lapse in posting in 2011 has not been suspicious enough for people to think...what exactly?

I lurked these forums for at least 4 months before I actually started posting, 911 CTs take time to take in due to their idiocy.

1 lurker returning to innundate the forum is one thing.

The last few weeks we've seen at least 5.

It's a pretty clear pattern that something is afoot.

 

[Sunstealer]

Frank Legge hasn't a clue

Hi dtg86,
It is perfectly clear that the sample of dust Milette is using is quite different from the WTC dust. The grey side he says is steel, while the grey side of the WTC dust is not metal but is an oxide. No point in looking further.

removes all doubt.

A small child who has learned to play the card game "snap" will be able to spot that the EDX spectra for the gray layer is the same in both studies. Frank Legge - not smarter than a 3 year old.

I wish I could find the post where I had 10+ EDX spectra of oxidised steel including the FEMA and George Vandervoort data - all match Harrit et al. All match Millette. That entire thread is one series of fail. Literally there is no truther there that knows his ass from his elbow with regard to this subject. It's actually painful to read. I'm getting RSI in my eye with all the wincing.

 

[Oystein]

Oystein and all: Here is the first "official" reaction from AE911Truth.

It is based on the same silly, persistent presumption that only one red primer was applied on the various steel elements in WTC. ...

In almost all truther reactions to the Jim Millette paper, the existence of Laclede primer is not really acknowledged so far. Therefore, our white-paper on the origin of chips (a) to (d) still can bring some light, Oystein.

From this flamewar I have a feeling that SnowCrash is only smart truther ...

Anyway, Jim Millette concluded that his analyses of red-gray chips are consistent with some paint and this single conclusion is what we really need at first.

This went into the AE911T newletter now, as 911Blogger documents:

http://www.911blogger.com/news/2012-03-20/ae911truth-blueprint-monthly-newsletter-march-2012

First 2 comments are very critical of just the things you mentioned, Ivan:

From OP:
"Editor’s note: The preliminary results of a new study of the red-gray chips, commissioned by Chris Mohr, a supporter of the official NIST reports about the destruction of the WTC skyscraper, and authored by Dr. James Millette, have recently been released. They seem to confirm that the composition of the red-gray chips does not match the formula for the primer paint used on the WTC steel structure. Look for a critique of Millette’s study in next month’s Blueprint newsletter."

See? Millette confirmed the composition of the red-gray chips. This is what passes for "the truth" in the 9-11 "truth" movement.

I can't believe what I'm reading.

This is straight up lying by omission in an AE911Truth newsletter.

Look for SnowCrash and jimd3100 getting quarantined at 911Blogger 3...2...1...

 

[sheeplesnshills]

1 lurker returning to innundate the forum is one thing.

The last few weeks we've seen at least 5.

It's a pretty clear pattern that something is afoot.

or the same person pretending to be 5 people.....

 

[RedIbis]

This went into the AE911T newletter now, as 911Blogger documents:

http://www.911blogger.com/news/2012-03-20/ae911truth-blueprint-monthly-newsletter-march-2012

First 2 comments are very critical of just the things you mentioned, Ivan:



Look for SnowCrash and jimd3100 getting quarantined at 911Blogger 3...2...1...

I'm a bit late to the party, but I checked your link, read through FAQ #7. Has there been a "debunking" of their points? Because they lay out what looks like a reasonable response to the assertion that the chips are primer paint.

If you've addressed this elsewhere feel free to simply link to it.

 

[Edx]

http://ae911truth.org/en/news-secti...e-wtc-steel-structural-elements.html#continue

"This sophisticated incendiary material has been developed in the most advanced laboratories in the world, and is designed to blast through steel, "

Lol, they wish.

 

[ergo]

Frank Legge hasn't a clue

removes all doubt.

A small child who has learned to play the card game "snap" will be able to spot that the EDX spectra for the gray layer is the same in both studies. Frank Legge - not smarter than a 3 year old.

I wish I could find the post where I had 10+ EDX spectra of oxidised steel including the FEMA and George Vandervoort data - all match Harrit et al. All match Millette. That entire thread is one series of fail. Literally there is no truther there that knows his ass from his elbow with regard to this subject. It's actually painful to read. I'm getting RSI in my eye with all the wincing.

Heh.

Must be hard for 9/11 bedunkers to be nothing more than anonymous internet posters with no legitimate venues through which to assert their authority on these subjects.

Oh well, I guess it's your choice to languish in the backwaters...

 

[LSSBB]

Heh.

Must be hard for 9/11 bedunkers to be nothing more than anonymous internet posters with no legitimate venues through which to assert their authority on these subjects.

Oh well, I guess it's your choice to languish in the backwaters...

Oh my gosh ergo, that is the motherload of irony ore you have unearthed. It can be used to make untold tons of steely.

By the way, what's a bedunker?

 

[ergo]

Meanwhile, the Millette paper is actually serving to bring wider attention to the issue of nanothermite in the WTC dust. I look forward to intelligent debate by credible scientists using their real names.

 

[tsig]

Meanwhile, the Millette paper is actually serving to bring wider attention to the issue of nanothermite in the WTC dust. I look forward to intelligent debate by credible scientists using their real names.

Ergo is your real name?

 

[Ivan Kminek]

Oystein, Chris: Do we have some clues why Jim has not yet considered/mentioned Laclede primer paint as a good candidate for the material of the most/some of his chips?

 

[fourtoe]

Ergo is your real name?

He's like Madonna or Cher.

 

[Oystein]

Oystein, Chris: Do we have some clues why Jim has not yet considered/mentioned Laclede primer paint as a good candidate for the material of the most/some of his chips?

I guess ha was unaware of it whem he wrote the prelim report

 

[Ivan Kminek]

Oystein: OK, let's wait

To me, SnowCrash is still one of the few truthers educated enough and capable of independent thinking/reasoning, therefore I'm trying to follow some evolution of his opinions.

Some quotes of SnowCrash from 911Blogger:

11.2.
Don't be fooled by Chris Mohr's fake civility and Millette's supposed impartiality.

5.3.
Wrt: elemental aluminum: TEM studies can establish exactly that. If I recall correctly, TEM studies had been done by the ATM team and were said to confirm earlier findings. But we never saw the results, nor did we see the results of the FTIR tests.

5.3.
The Youtube clip (Basile's burning of the red chip) doesn't depict nanothermite. It depicts a deflagration of an organic material.

6.3.
What was the maximum temperature reached in ignited samples? Was this temperature measured? I don't recall. I don't mean temperature inferred from the presence of iron-rich microspheres, or visual observation of sample burn color, but temperature measured by instrumentation. This shouldn't be too hard too measure directly, should it? 2Al + Fe2O3 → 2Fe + Al2O3 needs to approach 2773 Kelvin. Prove it.

My note: The answer of Frank Legge was basically no answer whatsoever, as expected. Bentham chips burned in DSC device produced heat slowly during ca 5 to 10 minutes and the heat released was quite low (although still higher than the theoretical heat of thermite combustion); therefore samples could have basically the same temperatures as the heating pan/sample holder. Temperatures never exceeded the final temperature of the measurement, which was 700 degrees C. I'm glad that at least SnowCrash seems to be aware of this.

20.3.
However, that doesn't mean Millette's lab didn't have the equipment to determine whether or not the materials they tested were thermitic materials. They did, through TEM and FTIR. DSC yields extra information, which I would like to see, but as a technology it's not a crucial determinant.
Meanwhile, my questions remain unanswered, and you are shifting the topic towards Millette, whose work this topic is about, but my questions were addressed at Jones/Harrit et al. I am growing impatient and I'm exceedingly upset...

 

[Edx]

using their real names.

If you're going to complain about that then you could at least be one of those using their real names yourself.