Trump's US Threat to Greenland (which belongs to Denmark)

[dann]

I tend to disagree with this Danish nationalist:

‘F--- off’: Danish lawmaker slams Trump over threats to take Greenland (MSNBC on YouTube, Jan 22, 2025)
Politico White House Correspondent Eugene Daniels joins Chris Jansing to provide insight on the international backlash over President Donald Trump’s threats to take Greenland and the Panama Canal and his seriousness of expanding America.

The Greenlanders should be the ones who decide what should happen to their country. It's not for Trump to decide. And also not for Denmark.

 

[theprestige]

I tend to disagree with this Danish nationalist:

The Greenlanders should be the ones who decide what should happen to their country. It's not for Trump to decide. And also not for Denmark.

Tell that to Denmark.

Also, are you seriously telling us that if Greenlanders favored US possession over Danish protests, you'd support their preference as legitimate over Danish sovereignty?

 

[arthwollipot]

Tell that to Denmark.

Also, are you seriously telling us that if Greenlanders favored US possession over Danish protests, you'd support their preference as legitimate over Danish sovereignty?

If Greenland held a free and fair referendum and the result was that sovereignty should be passed to the US, yes, that would be legitimate. But that's not happening. There's not even a question of that happening.

 

[dudalb]

Rep. Andy Ogles on his bill giving Trump the congressional authority to "acquire" Greenland: "We are, quite frankly, the dominant predator"

video in link

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881702698568884270

Uh, Trump already has the power to acquire Greenland. I guess Ogles never heard of Thomas Jefferson and the Louisnad Purchase..
As for the dominant predator, I think China would have something to say about that....

 

[Andy_Ross]

In case you missed it, yesterday afternoon the Danish MEP, Anders Vistisen, stood up during a meeting of the European Parliament and said,
"Dear President Trump, listen very carefully. Greenland has been part of the Danish Kingdom for 800 years. It is an integrated part of our country. It is not for sale. Let me put it in words you might understand: ◊◊◊◊ off!"

 

[dann]

Tell that to Denmark.

Also, are you seriously telling us that if Greenlanders favored US possession over Danish protests, you'd support their preference as legitimate over Danish sovereignty?

Yes, I'm seriously telling you that. However, I would still warn them and tell them to look up how the USA treats Inuits in Alaska and its "floating island of garbage" in the Caribbean.
I already know that anti-nationalism is a foreign concept to you.

 

[dann]

In case you missed it, yesterday afternoon the Danish MEP, Anders Vistisen, stood up during a meeting of the European Parliament and said,
"Dear President Trump, listen very carefully. Greenland has been part of the Danish Kingdom for 800 years. It is an integrated part of our country. It is not for sale. Let me put it in words you might understand: ◊◊◊◊ off!"

See post 91.

Anders Vistisen is a member of a right-wing populist party (Wikipedia). Their attitude to Greenland is usually that it is too expensive for Denmark and not worth it. Three years ago, they wanted to use Greenland as a place to send criminal foreigners, kind of like a Danish version of Gitmo, I guess. In 2023, they wanted to send people seeking asylum in Denmark to Greenland. (They are as anti-immigration as MAGA.)
They also don't approve of all natural ressources in Greenland belonging to Greenland instead of to Denmark.
In general, their attitude to Greenland can be described as colonialistic. In this respect, they have a lot in common with Donald Trump.
Unlike the vast majority of Danes, they are usually very fond of Trump, but not in this case, apparently.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I already know that anti-nationalism is a foreign concept to you.

People of his ilk repeatedly struggle to understand that Ukraine is a soveriegn nation making its own decisions, too. I've lost count of how many times I've seen people complain that we're 'forcing Ukraine to fight for us' when it's the Ukrainian leadership that decides when or if Ukraine surrenders, and they can stop fighting any time they want. Why this concept is so hard for them to understand, I have no idea. Too much normalization of American governments treating other countries as mindless pieces on a chess board?

 

[dudalb]

People of his ilk repeatedly struggle to understand that Ukraine is a soveriegn nation making its own decisions, too. I've lost count of how many times I've seen people complain that we're 'forcing Ukraine to fight for us' when it's the Ukrainian leadership that decides when or if Ukraine surrenders, and they can stop fighting any time they want. Why this concept is so hard for them to understand, I have no idea. Too much normalization of American governments treating other countries as mindless pieces on a chess board?

I dont deny the US is guilty of that, but most most powers do that with smaller countries. It is just the way of the world.

 

[bobdroege7]

What do you suggest? the USA should have invaded East Germany?

I seem to recall an unreliable source that said Patton wanted to do just that.

 

[steenkh]

Also, are you seriously telling us that if Greenlanders favored US possession over Danish protests, you'd support their preference as legitimate over Danish sovereignty?

I agree with dann. I fact, I think that any part of Denmark that wants leave the country, should be allowed to do so, if it is practical, and if a large (not just 51%) part of the population wants it.

I don’t subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful. But bigness may be a solution to certain problems.

 

[dann]

I really hate when I have to agree with a member of the Danish party with the most Trump supporters of all, Dansk Folkeparti (mentioned in post 97). But it's nice to see that they no longer embrace Trump the way they usually do:

Danish official explains why he told Trump to 'f*** off' (CNN on YouTube, Jan 24, 2024 - 5:14 min.)
CNN’s Erin Burnett speaks with Anders Vistisen, a Danish member of the European Parliament, about his decision to tell President Donald Trump to “f*** off” in response to Trump touting the idea of buying Greenland.
(...)
And for the other argument, that America can make a great deal:
We actually have some historical precedents for this. 100 years ago, we sold you what you call the US Virgin Islands today, and that territory still doesn't have voting rights for your presidential elections. That place doesn't have a voting member of your Parliament, the Congress, or the House of Representatives in the Senate.
And when I visited, when we had the 100 years commemoration, there was not a great lot of enthusiasm about the way the US is handling that.
So I think that the Greenlandic people are looking carefully and looking at the US overseas territories, or looking at how indigenous people are treated in the US.
It's very hard to make a compelling argument that they will have a better deal from the United States than what they have within the Danish Rail, Realm, the Kingdom of Denmark, where they have full voting rights in the Danish parliament, actually overrepresented, and, as you clearly stated, to have a very beneficial agreement economically with Denmark.

Dansk Folkeparti usually thinks that Greenlanders are too entitled, that they exploit the Danish welfare system and in general get too much money from Denmark. It's peculiar to see two patriotic ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, Trump and Vistisen, pretend to be concerned about the rights of indigenous people. When they do, it's always about indigenous people in other countries. Trump would never be concerned about Inuits in Alaska, Puerto Ricans or Virgin Islanders, and he just appointed the guy who helped kill 83 Samoans to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.

Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Samoa, Greenland (& Cuba), Unite!

 

[dann]

I agree with dann. I fact, I think that any part of Denmark that wants leave the country, should be allowed to do so, if it is practical, and if a large (not just 51%) part of the population wants it.

I don’t subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful. But bigness may be a solution to certain problems.

I remember when people in Jutland replaced the "DK" next to their license plates with a "J" for Jutland.
Do you know what happened to that movement? IIRC, they never called for a referendum.
I think they had a lot in common with the current secession movements in the U.S. Midwest!

 

[Dr.Sid]

In case you missed it, yesterday afternoon the Danish MEP, Anders Vistisen, stood up during a meeting of the European Parliament and said,
"Dear President Trump, listen very carefully. Greenland has been part of the Danish Kingdom for 800 years. It is an integrated part of our country. It is not for sale. Let me put it in words you might understand: ◊◊◊◊ off!"

I don't think Trump wants to buy it from Denmark. He will give (or better, promise) money to Greenlanders, and have a referendum. Btw. wikipedia says the referendum is being considered as soon as April this year together with some elections, maybe dann knows more ?

 

[dann]

I don't think there are any actual plans about a referendum in the near future.
Grønlandske toppolitikere tøver: Ingen tør sætte årstal på folkeafstemning om selvstændighed (DR.dk, Jan 11, 2025)
Major politicians in Greenland are hesitant: Nobody dares set a date or year for a referendum about sovereignty

But you are right about (local) elections. On April 1, 2025.

And in his New Year's speech, the chairman of Greenland's parliament said that he would like to have a referendum soon.

I assume that you are referring to this:

Greenlandic independence: Moves towards independence (Wikipedia)
At a press conference in early 2025, pro-independence prime minister Múte Bourup Egede said that "work has already begun on creating the framework for Greenland as an independent state" and apparently hinted that an independence referendum could take place already in April 2025, in tandem with the general elections.

In the same Wiki article, see also: Polling

I get the impression that Trump's recent threats have made both politicians and ordinary Greenlanders more hesitant about independence than they used to be. The way the USA usually tackles issues like this is to finance a charismatic politician to organize resistance against the allegedly oppressive regime. It helped create hell on earth in countries like Yugoslavia.

I don't know which arguments they would use. The current discussion about involuntary contraception in the 1960s and '70s may not be the best argument against Danish oppression since "several cases occurred after the responsibility of the health care system was transferred to the Greenland government in 1991." (Quotation from post 81) However, it could be used by a potential Greenlandic strongman as an argument against the old political parties in Greenland.

I am sure that MAGA Republicans would also love to support a 'right-to-life' movement (Wikipedia) in Greenland:
"Greenland also has one of the highest abortion rates in the world with a rate of 79.7 per 1000 live births for women aged 15–49 years" (ScienceDirect, Sep 2022)
However, if Greenland became the 51st state, MAGA wouldn't be happy with the color of those live births ...

 

[TragicMonkey]

I expect if Greenland gets independence from Denmark that will only make its unwilling acquisition by the US all the easier.

 

[ahhell]

I agree with dann. I fact, I think that any part of Denmark that wants leave the country, should be allowed to do so, if it is practical, and if a large (not just 51%) part of the population wants it.

I don’t subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful. But bigness may be a solution to certain problems.

Part of the reason Puerto Rico isn't a state or independent. The various referendum end up with small majorities for I believe state hood, with low voter turnout and at least two other choices. Usually, status quo vs independence or some in-between status.

 

[dann]

I expect if Greenland gets independence from Denmark that will only make its unwilling acquisition by the US all the easier.

I don't think it would make much difference. Realistically, Denmark wouldn't be able to put up a fight against a U.S. occupation of Greenland.
Greenlandic independence would spoil the argument that a U.S. invasion took place to liberate Greenland from Danish oppression.
However, I guess the argument would then be that a preemptive invasion was necessary to protect the country against China and/or Russia.

 

[steenkh]

I remember when people in Jutland replaced the "DK" next to their license plates with a "J" for Jutland.
Do you know what happened to that movement? IIRC, they never called for a referendum.

It appears to me that a large fraction of the inhabitants of Copenhagen (not in Jutland, in case some of you wondered) are Jutlanders. Certainly most of the police force. If they want to secede, I wonder how much they would include?

 

[bobdroege7]

The US will need to leave NATO before acquiring Greenland.