Trump 2.0 would be a catastrophe for the world...

[dudalb]

I think the real danger here is applied regality theory: one of the easiest ways to maintain an autocratic rule is to get involved in a war. A population who fights (real or perceived) outside enemies is more amenable to accepting losses of previous liberties and democractic checks and balances. A US slouching towards dictatorship might start a war in order to keep itself together.

Problem with that is it also can cause the downfall of said dictaroship if war does not go so well.
Once the body bags start coming home things change.

 

[dudalb]

He's already said he won't be picking the best people for the job. He's only going for the ones who are totally loyal to him. There won't be any moderating influences in his next administration. In fact, they have already released the radical plan he is going to implement.

Fauci is a scientist. I would have expected you to respect that. The first major, global pandemic in a century was not going to be something we would be able to respond to with a well oiled machine. We dealt with it the best we could.

The GOP has turned on science. One of the worst things under Trump 2.0 is that he will gut the public health system turning it over to the wackjobs he and his right wind Christian followeres support.

 

[dudalb]

I also think that Trump v2 will be a disaster for Europe.

It has been pointed out that Ukraine might collapse without US support - which Trump will most definitely withhold. And NATO will be weakened to the extend that Putin will start leaning on Moldova and the Baltic countries in order to make them submit to Russian hegemony.

But Trump’s influence will also be felt on issues like women’s rights and abortion. Even today we can see the cultural waves coming to Denmark from America so that abortion opponents are feeling a new spring. Would-be dictators like Orbán in Hungary, Fico in Slovakia, or even Erdoǧan in Turkey will seek inspiration from Trump, just like he would like to take a leaf from their books.

That is my concern. That Europe will not want to pay the price that opposing Putin without the US would ential, No doubt, they would have to spend more on defense then they are doing now. And, frankly, a lot of the Left are opposed to any military spending. I think they are morons living in a fantasy world, but such is the fact.
The return of Trump could be the start of a new Dark Age for the world..worst isnce the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

[dudalb]

Lol. Some people are going to embrace fascism in real life simply because they want to be contrarian to the people they bicker with on the internet.

SOme people think that Trump is attracting some support from the Youth vote just because they see him as some kind of "Anti establishment" figure.

 

[The Atheist]

The GOP has turned on science. One of the worst things under Trump 2.0 is that he will gut the public health system turning it over to the wackjobs he and his right wind Christian followeres support.

Is that the catastrophe the thread refers to?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Problem with that is it also can cause the downfall of said dictaroship if war does not go so well.
Once the body bags start coming home things change.

Only if the population isn't the sort of population with a habit of doubling down on mistakes. Is that America? Learns from mistakes? Doesn't get stubborn out of pride? Sees clearly, thinks rationally, stops to reconsider, has patience?

Yeah, didn't think so either.

 

[Hercules56]

The GOP has turned on science....

So have Progressives, just in a different way.

 

[junkshop]

That is my concern. That Europe will not want to pay the price that opposing Putin without the US would ential, No doubt, they would have to spend more on defense then they are doing now. And, frankly, a lot of the Left are opposed to any military spending. I think they are morons living in a fantasy world, but such is the fact.
The return of Trump could be the start of a new Dark Age for the world..worst isnce the fall of the Roman Empire.

It's like Chicken Little and the Boy Who Cried Wolf had the most hyperbolic baby the (doomed, for sure this time) world has ever seen.

 

[dudalb]

It's like Chicken Little and the Boy Who Cried Wolf had the most hyperbolic baby the (doomed, for sure this time) world has ever seen.

Hey, I am optimist compared to some people here.
They have pretty much already declared A Trump Dictatorship is inevitable.

 

[Brainster]

Trump is threatening to leave NATO.

An 80-year-old military alliance meant to counter the Soviets. But the Iron Curtain hasn't existed for 35 years. It's true that Putin is no good guy, but he wields nowhere near the military power that Stalin commanded, and is no kind of threat to even Eastern Europe, let alone the Western European countries that formed the original NATO alliance.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And yet Trump would have left if he could have.

It's a special kind of willful rejection of pattern recognition to claim that Trump won't cross THAT line after crossing every single one before we thought he wouldn't cross.

The only thing that made Trump stay in NATO was a staffer making him think that he could bully European Countries to pay the US - because he has no clue about anything.
It's the same with him thinking he can get Mexico to pay for his wall.

 

[The Don]

An 80-year-old military alliance meant to counter the Soviets. But the Iron Curtain hasn't existed for 35 years. It's true that Putin is no good guy, but he wields nowhere near the military power that Stalin commanded, and is no kind of threat to even Eastern Europe, let alone the Western European countries that formed the original NATO alliance.

No threat, apart from his stated objective to recover the "lost" Russian oblasts like the Baltic states.

It appears that he has no desire to roll tanks into Berlin but he wants a buffer zone including countries like Poland and Slovakia in which he wants to install client governments.

 

[junkshop]

An 80-year-old military alliance meant to counter the Soviets. But the Iron Curtain hasn't existed for 35 years. It's true that Putin is no good guy, but he wields nowhere near the military power that Stalin commanded, and is no kind of threat to even Eastern Europe, let alone the Western European countries that formed the original NATO alliance.

Where do you think Ukraine is?

 

[a_unique_person]

An 80-year-old military alliance meant to counter the Soviets. But the Iron Curtain hasn't existed for 35 years. It's true that Putin is no good guy, but he wields nowhere near the military power that Stalin commanded, and is no kind of threat to even Eastern Europe, let alone the Western European countries that formed the original NATO alliance.

The Putin puppets at blogs like The Duran say that Europe's ready move to a peace rather than a war footing was a sign of western degenerate weakness. Putin is a world leader and military genius because he still has stockpiles of rusty tanks and artillery shells.

 

[Ziggurat]

The only thing that made Trump stay in NATO was a staffer making him think that he could bully European Countries to pay the US

Here's the thing, though. Maybe Trump couldn't get NATO to pay the US, but Putin did. NATO purchases of US arms has significantly increased. The financial incentive to stay in the alliance is there, even if we do something like pull bases out of Germany. Do you really think those incentives won't influence Trump?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Here's the thing, though. Maybe Trump couldn't get NATO to pay the US, but Putin did. NATO purchases of US arms has significantly increased. The financial incentive to stay in the alliance is there, even if we do something like pull bases out of Germany. Do you really think those incentives won't influence Trump?

They won't unless there is a % in it for him, personally.
He has already said that he doesn't recognize the new UK government, the closest ally the US has in Europe, because they were mean to him ion the past.
If Putin starts to compliment him, offer him his Trump Tower Moscow again, plus a cushy consultant job after his term, he will do anything the man wants - or have you forgotten how Trump insisted on speaking with Putin COMPLETLY ALONE???

Do you really think this man is capable of thinking about anything except in terms how it relates to him, personally?
We have a very long biography of him proving that he can't.

 

[Ziggurat]

He has already said that he doesn't recognize the new UK government, the closest ally the US has in Europe, because they were mean to him ion the past.

I don't think he did say that. He did say:

“Look at Paris, look at London — they’re no longer recognizable.”​

But that means something very, very different.

If Putin starts to compliment him, offer him his Trump Tower Moscow again

Bwhahahahaha!

Do you think Trump is so clueless about real estate as to think a hotel in Moscow now is a money making prospect?

Do you really think this man is capable of thinking about anything except in terms how it relates to him, personally?

I'll accept that claim. But even accepting that, you're still leaping to unfounded conclusions. Trump's ego is about a lot more than money. If it were only a matter of money, he wouldn't have run for president. Being president didn't make him richer, it probably cost him money. But there's status in being president, status that money alone cannot buy. Once you pass a certain wealth threshold, making more money doesn't affect your material conditions, so the ultra-rich often look elsewhere. That's why Bezos started Blue Origin. That's why Musk bought Twitter. That's why Trump ran for President. It's not just about money. Status matters to people like Trump, and there's a lot of status in being President.

There is no status in being Putin's bitch, especially now. That's why I think you're completely wrong about how Trump sees Putin.

 

[ahhell]

Depends on what you mean by catastrophe. Bad definitely, very bad, I don't expect it will be something I would characterize as a catastrophe though. And as bad as it is for the rest of the world it will be worse for the US.

Zig has a good point, from what I can tell, the only reason Trump likes money is that having a lot feeds his ego. I don't think he would care how rich he was if he didn't see it as a status symbol.

 

[dudalb]

I keep reminding myself that it is very likely not Donny personally organising the rise of American fascism in his name. He's so out of touch with reality that he is personally incapable of running a lemonade stall profitably (mostly because he would be out golfing instead). He has demonstrated innumerable times he has no idea how government, law or science works, nor even the slightest inclination to learn.

The real culprits, if that is the right word, are the faceless geniuses behind him, who are indeed quite clever and capable of planning and operating a nazi coup by any other name. Trump is just their butt-ugly arsewipe of a sockpuppet they hide behind. They don't care a hoot if Donny goes to jail or dies. As long as all anger is directed like a lightning-rod against the useless, oblivious orange blob, the "project" keeps going regardless. So to stop this landslide into the crapper, they are the ones who need to be neutralised, not Trump.

Come on, guy, name names.
Proablyt the usual evil capitalist the hard left balmes all the ills of the worls upon.
THe rise of Trump is a complex phenemenon, and simplictic conspiracy theories just wil not cut it.

 

[dudalb]

An 80-year-old military alliance meant to counter the Soviets. But the Iron Curtain hasn't existed for 35 years. It's true that Putin is no good guy, but he wields nowhere near the military power that Stalin commanded, and is no kind of threat to even Eastern Europe, let alone the Western European countries that formed the original NATO alliance.

Ask the Ukranians about that.
Sad to see you are talking yourslef into supporting Trump.
DO you think , given how unstalbizing it would be, US withdrawal from NATO is a good idea?