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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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LOL yes I do know that. And the delicious irony is that you cannot solve the extremely easy puzzle as to why a) this wasn't simply run as a Newsnight investigation, and/or b) why Newsnight aren't running the story at all (whereas, of course, GB News is dining out on it AHAHAHAHA).

You can't join the dots on this one, can you? It's right there in front of your eyes and yet you still can't see it?


Get back to us when the author is sacked from Newsnight for fabricating lies in a book.

The programme already did some digging on this and ran it at the time. Who was the lead investigator on that, I wonder? Oh yes, someone called Hannah Barnes. The author of this new book. I imagine that investigation is what started her on her own more detailed exposé which is now about to be published. Newsnight know all about it and aren't in the business of leaping on the Sunday Times exclusive like a bunch of groupie teenagers. GB News has nothing better to do with its day than rerun the ST exclusive as if it's something they just found out about.

What is right in front of your eyes but you still can't see it is that Hannah Barnes, as a Newsnight empoyee, undoubtedly has the bessing of her managers to continue with the research she started for their earlier investigation into the affair, and work it up into a book. They've already done the initial programme on it, and they're not going to jump in with another one just because the book is due out in ten days. The ST splash is part of the publication drive leading up to the book launch.
 
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Oh yes, that too.

Except the ones who don't, but we're not supposed to mention them. Or they don't count because reasons.
 
Your midnight check-in on the petition reports 81,411 signatures, so 212 new signatures today. It's fallen right back again.

The new magic number is 281.7.
 
Glad that's cleared up.

Thank you. With your wording it does not seem possible for a trans woman to enter a female only space without doing this (unless, say, they simply did not know it was a female space or went in by accident).

It follows from this that you think that every trans woman who is in a female-only space is behaving in a predatory manner, every time they do it. Regardless of their intention, motivation whatever. Regardless of whether the prevailing rules allow them to do this or not. Because they are trans women (IE biologically male)

And you can't see that that is intolerance. Or transphobia.
If you consider it "bigotry" and "transphobia" to recognize that males look like males 99.999% of the time... well, that's on you.

You're the one arguing that somehow, everyone is supposed to be able to read the minds of the male-looking person with a male body who has decided that their feels are more important than the dignity of females. You're the one who has decided that because somehow YOU can magically tell that they don't "intend" to make anyone uncomfortable... that makes it perfectly fine.

So yes. I am intolerant of males in female-only spaces. I don't think it's something unreasonable to be intolerant of. In fact, I think it's completely reasonable and appropriate for all females to be intolerant of males in female-only spaces.

You are free to try to convince me that I'm wrong... but unless you can teach me how to literally read minds, you've probably got an uphill battle.
 
There is no reason to suppose otherwise. Many workplace or otherwise corporate/private toilets are open to gender identification. If that one wasn't, then that trans woman was contravening a policy being there. I assume they were not doing that.

Corporate policy is not law. But hey, you go right on ahead and assume that any male who shows up in a female-only space has a right to be there. Just don't denigrate me for disagreeing.
 
Way to entirely miss the point. The intolerance is the calling (and believing that) every trans woman who enters a female only space is a predator under all circumstances. It is obvious that this is not the case. Yet this is what Emily's Cat, and it seems you, do. I think it's what ripx4nutmeg did too. It's not necessary to adopt such an intolerant stance just because one is opposed to trans women having access to female only settings; it's your choice.

Stop forcing your language on me. I absolutely believe that EVERY MALE who enters a female only space is a predator under all circumstances.

What they feel about their special gendered soul is completely irrelevant to me. I don't care what they identify as. I don't care about their wishes.

I care that they are MALE and that THEY KNOW THEY ARE MALE and that THEY KNOW THEY WILL BE VIEWED AS MALE and THEY KNOW THEY WILL CAUSE DISCOMFORT TO FEMALES but they do it anyway.

And that is predatory behavior. It's intentionally engaging in behavior they know will cause fear and discomfort to females... but they do it anyway.

And you keep making up excuses for why males should have a special privilege to discomfort and intimidate females across the board because of how they feel inside their brains.
 
Not all trans women who wish to use female only settings are predators of women. That's my rational argument. Didn't realise it needed outlining.

How the **** do we tell the difference? How are we supposed to know?

And any MALE who wishes to use female only setting, knowing that they are MALE, and knowing that the presence of a MALE will make females feel intimidated and concerned, is behaving in a predatory manner.
 
No I am not content to do that, I have said consistently for years that I am not, most recently here, 9 days ago.

It is, however, allowed in many places. And while it is fine, and to be supported, to campaign to change this, I do not believe it is the case than every trans woman who wishes to use female only settings, and does use such where permitted, is a predator, behaving as a predator, preying on women, pick one. I believe it is transphobic intolerance to think so or declare it to be so in the general case.

I genuinely don't understand this apparent dichotomy.

You say that you are not content to allow transgender identified males to use female-only spaces. You say that you are in opposition to allowing transgender identified males to use female-only spaces.

But you simultaneously seem to think that when I say males intentionally transgressing female boundaries are behaving in a predatory manner... I'm "transphobic".

What's the deal? Do you draw some line between transgender identified males and males in general that I can't see? Or have you somehow decided that males who intentionally do things that they know will instill fear in females are somehow "good guys"? Or do you think that these transgender identified males genuinely have no idea that they're males in the first place, and genuinely believe that their cock and balls are female organs?

Or is this tone policing, and I'm just not being "nice" to the poor delicate males who want to be in with the females against the will of those females?

But I do not suppose that all trans women who wish to access female settings are narcissistic or autogynaephilic or misogynistic or other things like these. Many are, plain and simple, people who want to be female, believe they are female, identify as female, have a gender identity of female, pick one.
Let's tackle the first and last in that list as easy pickings. If a male wants to be female, that doesn't actually make them female. If a male has a "gender identity" of female (and I invite you to attempt to explain what that actually means) that still doesn't actually make them female. In either case, their wishes are irrelevant to the fact that they are incontrovertibly male... and that any reasonable person would know and expect that the presence of a male in a female-only space will make females feel intimidated and afraid. Thus, I would say that their insistence that their wishes are more important than the comfort and dignity of the females who would use those spaces is very much figuratively narcissistic.

The middle one... males who genuinely 100% believe they are female. Well, those I might concede don't *intend* to cause problems... But I would also say that they have a very clear delusion and need mental health support. Metaphorically speaking, Just because they truly believe that they're a dog doesn't give them the right to **** on the sidewalk.
 
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No I am not content to do that, I have said consistently for years that I am not, most recently here, 9 days ago.

It is, however, allowed in many places. And while it is fine, and to be supported, to campaign to change this, I do not believe it is the case than every trans woman who wishes to use female only settings, and does use such where permitted, is a predator, behaving as a predator, preying on women, pick one. I believe it is transphobic intolerance to think so or declare it to be so in the general case.

As before, I do not.

But I do not suppose that all trans women who wish to access female settings are narcissistic or autogynaephilic or misogynistic or other things like these. Many are, plain and simple, people who want to be female, believe they are female, identify as female, have a gender identity of female, pick one.


EC reminded me I hadn't picked up on this post. There are a number of subtly different points here which need to be picked apart.

First, I have never claimed that every transwoman is a predator, in the sense that I would normally understand the word. The problem is that some are, and not only that, transwomen as a demographic in general have some quite alarming statistics. As noted above, they are imprisoned for sex crimes at a rate 565 times greater than the equivalent rate for women, and even about five times the equivalent rate for other men. Not only that, the type of offences is clearly male-pattern offending (rape, grooming, stalking, solo assault of adult strangers etc.) as opposed to female-pattern (child victims, usually within the family, and/or offences committed together with a male partner). Even if we generously allow that half of these imprisoned transwomen are feigning a trans identity to get into a women's prison, that still leaves a sex-offending rate 283 times that of women, and two-and-a-half times that of other men.

Given all that, how exactly are women meant to tell which transwomen are benign and which not? They all look like men. How can we somehow allow the nice ones in but keep out the problematic ones?

Second, every transwoman who knows that he will be read as male by women (which is nearly all of them) knows that his presence in a female single-sex space (whether or not that has been sanctioned by some woke administrator) is likely to cause distress and alarm to at least some of the women in there. If not the first time he goes in, eventually. They go in anyway, because the gratification they get from doing that means more to them than avoiding causing alarm and distress to women who see a man in the space they had counted on to be male-free.

If you want to regard that as predatory behaviour, then yes, they all are.

Third, if you think this is as simple as "people who want to be female, believe they are female, identify as female, have a gender identity of female, pick one" you really have not investigated this in any depth.

There is no such thing as a female brain in a male body. There is no such thing as a female soul the stork mistakenly put into a baby boy. There are two overwhelming reasons for men to identify as trans, plus a couple of other causes that are pretty rare (although that poor man who has been approved for euthanasia in the Netherlands is one of the rarities). And of the two common reasons, the big majority in western countries is autogynaephilia.

Not all AGP men are nasty, domineering, demanding narcissists who like to bully women. That's just the leaders of the trans-activist movement. Some of them are relatively restrained and even somewhat considerate. But they're not considerate enough to refrain from colonising women's spaces and categories, because that's where they get their thrills.

This article is a good introduction to the issue, and it also covers the reasons for girls identifying as trans, which are different. There is more literature of course, and naturally you'll find the things the TRAs have published to try to discredit it, but it's the real deal.

Gender dysphoria is not one thing

I think it was a huge mistake for the psychologists to decide (without asking women) that men could be trained to behave in single-sex spaces, and to proceed to do that, and to sanction them going into women's spaces once they had had the instruction. That was the thin end of the wedge, and now here we are, no considerate behaviour is required, no attempt to pass as a woman is required, and no paperwork is required.

Maybe there are some transwomen (AGP and all) who are shy and considerate and try their best not to upset women. But sorry, they're men too and they shouldn't be there. And I am developing nothing but contempt for women (including I fear my best friend) who are so concerned with the comfort of this demographic that they accede to opening our protected spaces to men.

If a few benign transwomen not getting what they want is the price of our single-sex spaces being reliably single-sex again, so that we won't be distressed and alarmed by a burly great bloke in lipstick and a bad wig and a face covered in stubble, and we know we can ask a man to leave without being accused of a hate crime, then so be it.
 
Stop forcing your language on me. I absolutely believe that EVERY MALE who enters a female only space is a predator under all circumstances.

What they feel about their special gendered soul is completely irrelevant to me. I don't care what they identify as. I don't care about their wishes.

I care that they are MALE and that THEY KNOW THEY ARE MALE and that THEY KNOW THEY WILL BE VIEWED AS MALE and THEY KNOW THEY WILL CAUSE DISCOMFORT TO FEMALES but they do it anyway.

And that is predatory behavior. It's intentionally engaging in behavior they know will cause fear and discomfort to females... but they do it anyway.

And you keep making up excuses for why males should have a special privilege to discomfort and intimidate females across the board because of how they feel inside their brains.


Yeah, that too. I'm being pushed more and more to Emily's Cat's position on this. And being called intolerant and transphobic by another woman is accelerating this process rather than reversing it.
 
"Ah, I see the problem here then", Stewart responded. "You see, GB News is, well... I'll try to be as diplomatic as possible.... it's a right-wing cesspit with extremely low journalist standards and a proven track-record in providing dog-whistle programming to bigots and reactionaries. What you'll find with the major network broadcasters is that we have much higher standards. We are careful only to run stories that can be double- (or preferably triple-) sourced, and that can be shown to be both objective and reliable."

At this point flames started to issue from both my ears, so I had to put the phone down on the hopelessly-captured editor of Newsnight, and stick my head into a bucket of cold vinegar.

It's really odd that Stewart didn't just explain to you that this book is a follow-up to the original investigation that already ran on Newsnight in 2020, before the Tavistock closed. He should have reassured you that this was covered at the time, and that subsequent events have vindicated the concerns raised in the original investigation (as one would expect given their high standards of investigation).

NHS child gender clinic: Staff concerns 'shut down'

'In the transcripts, staff are damning in their assessment of some parts of the service

'"Let's pray that I am wrong because if I am not wrong, very many vulnerable children have been very poorly treated and will be left with, potentially, a lifetime of damage here," one says."

"People who raise concerns are seen as trouble making and difficult," one staff member argued.

"When I raised concerns I was told that I had to toe the line or I would never progress in my career," another said."'

Homophobia in families attending GIDS is mentioned in all the transcripts Newsnight has seen.

"As well as seeing young people struggling with their sexuality, staff say some parents appeared to prefer their children to be transgender and straight, rather than gay."

I'm sure you will be relieved to hear this and can take your head out of the vinegar. Perhaps you should have a word with Stewart's manager as he seems to have caused you some embarrassment.
 
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This news story might be of some interest to USAians, particularly Mainers.

The mother of a 13-year-old announced during a recent school committee meeting that she had withdrawn her child from Great Salt Bay Community School in Damariscotta after she learned a school social worker had given a chest binder to the student without the parents’ knowledge.
Personally I've mixed feelings on this one. It's hard for me to see why it should be considered desirable or psychologically healthy for someone socially transition from breakfast until mid afternoon and then stay in the closet until bedtime.
 
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It's hard for me to see why it should be considered desirable or healthy for school staff to be making these kinds of decisions about their students without involving the parents.
 
"Ah, I see the problem here then", Stewart responded. "You see, GB News is, well... I'll try to be as diplomatic as possible.... it's a right-wing cesspit with extremely low journalist standards and a proven track-record in providing dog-whistle programming to bigots and reactionaries. What you'll find with the major network broadcasters is that we have much higher standards. We are careful only to run stories that can be double- (or preferably triple-) sourced, and that can be shown to be both objective and reliable.”

Here’s a handy link with all the objective, reliable, triple-sourced reports Newsnight has run on the Tavistock (they ran stories in July and November of 2019, as well as June, October and December of 2020). Most produced by Hannah Barnes, the author of the new book.
 
Here’s a handy link with all the objective, reliable, triple-sourced reports Newsnight has run on the Tavistock (they ran stories in July and November of 2019, as well as June, October and December of 2020). Most produced by Hannah Barnes, the author of the new book.

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware that they had done so many.

PS. They really need to sack this 'Stewart' person. What an ignoramus.
 
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It's hard for me to see why it should be considered desirable or healthy for school staff to be making these kinds of decisions about their students without involving the parents.
As a parent, I can see why parents would want to be in the loop. If nothing else, we are the people who arrange for our kids' medical visits.

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