Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Emily's Cat]

That's fine, then. From here on in I'll refer to him as MC Reciprocating Saw w/Dildo. Because it's so much more dignified to be the idea guy and front man than the exhibitionists who actually do this on stage. Like a pimp is classier than the hoe, amirite?

It wasn't their idea, they didn't arrange or choreograph it.

 

[Thermal]

Did you fall asleep for the whole "maybe I want to be an asian woman" part, and the "maybe I'm an asian woman on the inside"? Are you working on the hypothesis that if they don't literally use the word "trans" it can't possibly be trans at all?

No, I'm working on the 'if I say I'm a guy, I'm a guy' model. The FICTIONAL CHARACTER was into all kinds of stuff, saving the most outrageous for last. Then he got SOBER as a Buddhist and suddenly, he wasn't an Asian girl getting ◊◊◊◊◊◊ by himself anymore.

Come on. you're really grasping at straws, here. Can you at least use a real person?

 

[Thermal]

I remember you posting stuff and claiming that it doesn't mean what it says it means, and then dismissing it out of hand.

It appears on two pages... and one of those pages is LITERALLY a subcategory of Transvestic Disorder, which is a category within Paraphilic Disorders.

We are talking about AGP, not other disorders. AGP is NONE of what you claimed, repeatedly.

 

[Thermal]

It wasn't their idea, they didn't arrange or choreograph it.

it was literally his class. Or more properly, an after-school mechanized donkey show for his students.

 

[Emily's Cat]

All active duty troops need medical care, quite a few also need therapy. Have you seen a scientifically-based argument that people with gender dysphoria are so far outside of the normal curve that they cannot function well even in non-combat support roles?

The folks at http://www.health.mil/PHRC will be surprised to learn that the only available treatment is outprocessing.

You might be surprised to know that aside from PTSD and related issues that are caused by military action... psychiatric treatment will almost without fail lose any security clearances, will usually end up with their service contract not being renewed at end of term, and in many cases will result in a medical discharge.

 

[Emily's Cat]

We are talking about AGP, not other disorders. AGP is NONE of what you claimed, repeatedly.

Yes, it is - it's literally a subclassification of the DIAGNOSIS OF Transvestic Disorder, which is a specific type of DIAGNOSIS OF Paraphilic disorder. It's actually, literally, exactly what I've said it is - an existing diagnosis in DSM.

 

[Thermal]

Yes, it is - it's literally a subclassification of the DIAGNOSIS OF Transvestic Disorder, which is a specific type of DIAGNOSIS OF Paraphilic disorder. It's actually, literally, exactly what I've said it is - an existing diagnosis in DSM.

No, it's not. It's mentioned as an aside contributor that sometimes goes along with transvestic disorders.

DSM-5 does not recognize AGP as anything but a thought that produces arousal in a small percentage. It has no demonstrated link to being trans.

IT APPEARS ON EXACTLY TWO PAGES, AND ON NEITHER IS IT A DIAGNOSIS, SUBCLASSIFICATION, OR HAS ANY DISTINCTION WHATSOEVER. They actually define it on each of the two pages, because SINCE IT IS NOT A RECOGNIZED SUBCLASSIFICATION, IT DOES NOT APPEAR AS SUCH IN THE DSM.

I even included the APA search engine. The APA itself doesn't even recognize the term, much less acknowledge it as a sub/diagnosis or subclassification or whatever the hell you are claiming it is.

 

[Ziggurat]

Come on. you're really grasping at straws, here. Can you at least use a real person?

When we use real people, you say that we are cherry picking and they don't represent trans people in general.

 

[Ziggurat]

it was literally his class. Or more properly, an after-school mechanized donkey show for his students.

Your first sentence is a lie. I sense a pattern.

 

[Thermal]

When we use real people, you say that we are cherry picking and they don't represent trans people in general.

You often are. Howzabout going crazy and use something more robust than a post from twitter to make your case?

 

[Thermal]

Your first sentence is a lie. I sense a pattern.

Oh, Christ, excuse me. It was a supplementary mechanized donkey show offered to students of his class. That's an important technical distinction, right there. The university that I guess wasn't technically his cancelled the course he taught that I guess wasn't technically his either,

 

[Emily's Cat]

No, it's not. It's mentioned as an aside contributor that sometimes goes along with transvestic disorders.

DSM-5 does not recognize AGP as anything but a thought that produces arousal in a small percentage. It has no demonstrated link to being trans.

IT APPEARS ON EXACTLY TWO PAGES, AND ON NEITHER IS IT A DIAGNOSIS, SUBCLASSIFICATION, OR HAS ANY DISTINCTION WHATSOEVER. They actually define it on each of the two pages, because SINCE IT IS NOT A RECOGNIZED SUBCLASSIFICATION, IT DOES NOT APPEAR AS SUCH IN THE DSM.

I even included the APA search engine. The APA itself doesn't even recognize the term, much less acknowledge it as a sub/diagnosis or subclassification or whatever the hell you are claiming it is.

Overview of Paraphilias and Paraphilic Disorders - Psychiatric Disorders - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Overview of Paraphilias and Paraphilic Disorders - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

Dozens of paraphilias have been described, but most are uncommon or rare. The most common paraphilic disorders are

• Voyeuristic disorder
• Exhibitionistic disorder
• Frotteuristic disorder
• Sexual masochism disorder
• Sexual sadism disorder
• Pedophilic disorder
• Fetishistic disorder
• Transvestic disorder

Transvestic Disorder - Psychiatric Disorders - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Transvestic Disorder - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

Diagnosis of transvestic disorder requires the following (1):

• Patients experience recurrent and intense arousal from cross-dressing as manifested by fantasies, intense urges, or behaviors.
• These fantasies, intense sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impair functioning at work, in social situations, or in other important areas of life.
• The condition has been present for ≥ 6 months.

The clinician must specify whether

• Fetishism (sexual arousal by fabrics, materials, or garments) or autogynephilia (arousal by thoughts or images of self as a woman) are present.
• The patient is living in a controlled environment (eg, institution) or in full remission (ie, at least 5 years without distress/impairment in an uncontrolled environment)

1. 1. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition,Text Revision (DSM-5-TR). American Psychiatric Association Publishing, Washington, DC.

 

[Thermal]

Overview of Paraphilias and Paraphilic Disorders - Psychiatric Disorders - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Overview of Paraphilias and Paraphilic Disorders - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

Transvestic Disorder - Psychiatric Disorders - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Transvestic Disorder - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

You made my point for me, again. It is not a subclassification. It's not anything of consequence. It's a thought that produces arousal in those that have it, and often goes hand in hand with transvestic disorder.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You often are. Howzabout going crazy and use something more robust than a post from twitter to make your case?

So let me make sure I understand this...

You're shown actual real people who post themselves on the internet and who fit the description of autogynephilia, and who describe themselves as transgender... and you reject them because they're "cherry picked"

You're shown a depiction of actual autogynephilia in TV, and you reject it because it's fiction.

You're shown the actual DSM criteria for a diagnosis of Transvestic Disorder with Autogynephilia, and you reject that because "it only shows up twice" and somehow you've decided it's not a disorder at all.

Is there anything at all that could possibly convince you that AGP does actually exist and is present in a not-insignificant number of transgender identified males?

 

[Thermal]

So let me make sure I understand this...

You're shown actual real people who post themselves on the internet and who fit the description of autogynephilia, and who describe themselves as transgender... and you reject them because they're "cherry picked"

No.

You're shown a depiction of actual autogynephilia in TV, and you reject it because it's fiction.

No.

You're shown the actual DSM criteria for a diagnosis of Transvestic Disorder with Autogynephilia, and you reject that because "it only shows up twice" and somehow you've decided it's not a disorder at all.

No.

Is there anything at all that could possibly convince you that AGP does actually exist and is present in a not-insignificant number of transgender identified males?

Data, research... pretty much anything of substance. Find some and we can talk. Keep desperately clinging to what sounds (to you) like acceptence of trans hate in the medical community, and I'll sit back and wait. Like I have been waiting for @Rolfe 's evidence. It's been a long wait.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You made my point for me, again. It is not a subclassification. It's not anything of consequence. It's a thought that produces arousal in those that have it, and often goes hand in hand with transvestic disorder.

Did you even read it? Because you're patently and categorically wrong, Thermal.

Paraphilias are a class of disorders. Transvestic Disorder is one of those Paraphilic Disorders. When diagnosing Transvestic Disorder, the clinician is expected to specify whether the Transvestic Disorder is Fetishism or Autogynephilia.

What the ◊◊◊◊ are you not getting here?

Let's try this...

Cancer is a class of diagnosis. Within that class, there are three major categories: carcinoma, sarcoma, and blood cancers. Within the category of carcinoma, there are further subcategories based on the type of cell involved: squamous cell carcinoma, adenocarcinoma, and basal cell carcinoma.

For all intents, you're out here insisting that squamous cell carcinoma isn't a diagnosis, it's not anything of consequence. Which you can totally do, but my doctor rather disagrees with you which is why I get to have a biopsy tomorrow to see if I have a diagnosis of squamous cell carcinoma!

Probably not - it's probably just a plain old fibroid, but the preliminary tests were inconclusive so yay me.

 

[Thermal]

Did you even read it? Because you're patently and categorically wrong, Thermal.

Paraphilias are a class of disorders. Transvestic Disorder is one of those Paraphilic Disorders. When diagnosing Transvestic Disorder, the clinician is expected to specify whether the Transvestic Disorder is Fetishism or Autogynephilia.

What the ◊◊◊◊ are you not getting here?

Let's try this...

Cancer is a class of diagnosis. Within that class, there are three major categories: carcinoma, sarcoma, and blood cancers. Within the category of carcinoma, there are further subcategories based on the type of cell involved: squamous cell carcinoma, adenocarcinoma, and basal cell carcinoma.

For all intents, you're out here insisting that squamous cell carcinoma isn't a diagnosis, it's not anything of consequence. Which you can totally do, but my doctor rather disagrees with you which is why I get to have a biopsy tomorrow to see if I have a diagnosis of squamous cell carcinoma!

Probably not - it's probably just a plain old fibroid, but the preliminary tests were inconclusive so yay me.

Sorry to hear about that. I just got done a round of chemotherapy. It was really some little skin cancer thing on my neck, but I was perscribed some ointment called Flouroucil (sp?) that says it's a topical chemotherapy so I am milking it for all it's worth.

Back to AGP: it's still a non-condition. It's nothing. It's a thought that produces arousal. They make a distinction between fetishism and the relatively nothing-ish AGP, but that doesn't make it a subclassification.

ETA: the Merck manual spells it out clearly, yes. In transvestic disorder, the diagnosis has to specify whether fetishism or AGP are present. Nothing more. That absolutely does not make AGP a subclassification. It's just a different approach to going about the treatment of the actual problem, transvestic disorder.

 

[Ziggurat]

You often are. Howzabout going crazy and use something more robust than a post from twitter to make your case?

I have. Repeatedly.

 

[smartcooky]

It. Didn't. Depict. Autogynephilia. As. Anything. Related. To. Being. Trans.

Stating this this unverified claim "one . word. at . a . time" style doesn't make it any more true than you imagined it was before

Autogynephilia is the arousing thought of yourself as a woman....

Which, remarkably, is frequently and very strongly indicated among transwomen who do stuff such as dress up in girlie clothes and go into women's toilets and changing rooms, video themselves masturbating, and then post those videos online.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it almost certainly IS a duck

But not of being trans. There's no connection to trans. The idea, the arousing thought, was likely AGP, yes. But you guys have stretched that over to 'therefore trans!' which doesn't follow at all. It didn't for the character

Looks like you've got some book learnin' to do son...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5893630_What_Many_Transgender_Activists_Don%27t_Want_You_to_Know_and_why_you_should_know_it_anyway

​

What Many Transgender Activists Don't Want You to Know: and why you should know it anyway​

Abstract​

Currently the predominant cultural understanding of male-to-female transsexualism is that all male-to-female (MtF) transsexuals are, essentially, women trapped in men's bodies. This understanding has little scientific basis, however, and is inconsistent with clinical observations. Ray Blanchard has shown that there are two distinct subtypes of MtF transsexuals. Members of one subtype, homosexual transsexuals, are best understood as a type of homosexual male. The other subtype, autogynephilic transsexuals, are motivated by the erotic desire to become women. The persistence of the predominant cultural understanding, while explicable, is damaging to science and to many transsexuals.​

 

[Rolfe]

Ya that's great. What we were talking about was if AGP was incorporated into being trans in *most*cases, as was claimed. There is no connection. Maybe in some percentage of the 3% of transpeople who also have AGP, but whatever. The rule hasn't been demonstrated.

Reddit has an estimated 500 million users. You are going to find the one in a million who says exactly what you want them to say many times over. Anecdotes, data.

3% of all men. Vastly more than that of trans-identifying men.