Marcus
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Yes. The porthole was only rated for 1300 meters, so perhaps that was it, but if it was the carbon fiber hull , that's probably the end of that approach.
Titanic tourist sub missing
- Thread starter TurkeysGhost
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arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
This is it in a nutshell. Unfortunate, perhaps, but there it is.
Ernie M
Graduate Poster
I believe I saw one or both Titanium interface caps; the Titanium 'rings' that get glued to the carbon fiber/epoxy hull and bolted to Titanium end caps (one endcap had the acrylic viewport).
What struck me was...there was no carbon fiber hull (visible) attached to the (what I believe was one or both) Titanium interface rings?
That could potentially mean that the green-colored adhesive used to glue the carbon fiber hull to the Titanium interface rings may have become...unglued?
Adhesive not done in a vacuum?
I watched a video of some of 'Titan's' construction, I was surprised (in a shocked way) that when they appeared to mixing the green-colored adhesive–that the hand-mixing wasn't done in a vacuum– and/or they didn't show the hand-mixed adhesive put into a container to which the container is sealed and a vacuum pump is drawn, to pull out the air bubbles. The mixing likely would've/should've also been done in an This means air (bubbles) were likely mixed/whipped into the green-colored adhesive. That's bad and can lead to failure.
Air bubbles are bad because they will shrink and expand with each dive cycle. The shrinkage-and-expanding can cause carbon fiber to delaminate, crack. Cracks can propagate, akin to if you get a chip in your car windshield from a stone hitting it on the highway, and if it's below freezing, any water in the crack(s) will slowly cause the crack to get bigger and bigger. The crack will bet bigger and move across your windshield. The more water that gets in the crack(s) and freezes each time, the bigger the crack gets. So if there were to be small cracks in the carbon fiber, especially at the ends where the fibers were cut where they they'd get glued/expoxy'd/adhesived to the Titanium interface caps (I assume the carbon fiber isn't tucked back onto itself to form a rounded edge); those joins with the green-colored adhesive are prime areas for carbon fiber to fail.
Also, there were likely air bubbles in the epoxy that bound the carbon fiber together.
I don't know how the carbon fiber ends were, for if they were made from a crack-mitigating formation by having carbon nanotubes in the way? that's way out of my knowledge base. But the idea is, those join areas can be trouble and prone to crack the carbon fiber under tremendous atmospheric pressures.
But again, my understanding is carbon fiber/epoxy made in a cylinder with adhesive joins to Titanium is a recipe for disaster at extreme depths.
Each cycle at tremendous pressure and temperature changes, with possible water intrusion, can produce delamination in the the carbon fiber, and possible failure at the adhesive joins. Carbon fiber/epoxy, and Titanium have different shrink rates across all axes, and that also produces stress and strain along the joinery.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
I think it depends on what what means, so to speak. Obviously the hull failed and thus the mission failed quite dramatically, but it might be useful to know whether the carbon fiber cracked or delaminated in some certain way. The vessel claimed to be for research, so in a grim sort of way, let the research begin.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
I doubt we will learn that, as the carbon fiber itself would be shredded to little pieces. Even the end-cap rings it was bonded to look quite clean and free of any remains of carbon fiber.
As for the window, it would be most likely blown during the implosion anyway. It's not designed to resist pressure from inside, and there would be plenty of that during the implosion.
As for burned stuff .. so far I haven't seen anything which would be from the inside. IMHO it would be best noticeable on materials like hair and clothes .. and possibly surfaces of plastic instruments. AFAIK no remains at all were lifted, nor found.
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
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‘Presumed human remains’ found in wreckage of doomed Titan submersible, US Coast Guard says.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/28/americas/titan-submersible-debris-st-johns
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/28/americas/titan-submersible-debris-st-johns
The Atheist
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Presumably tiny bits of flesh and skin blasted against the whatever it was that floated to the surface.
Nice.
Was it Mythbusters who crammed a diving bell suit full of meat and let the pressure out at 100 or so metres to show what happens when you lose pressure underwater? I recall a fairly sickening shot of pork squashed into the solid helmet.
The implosion at 4000 metres would have been spectacular.
Ernie M
Graduate Poster
Correction to my post 723:
I incorrectly said the adhesive color that was used to glue the carbon fiber hull to the Titanium interface caps was green. According to an OceanGate video, "Bonding the Titanium Ring and the Carbon Fiber Hull," the correct color of the adhesive is gray.
I incorrectly said the adhesive color that was used to glue the carbon fiber hull to the Titanium interface caps was green. According to an OceanGate video, "Bonding the Titanium Ring and the Carbon Fiber Hull," the correct color of the adhesive is gray.
Remains to be seen.
Ernie M
Graduate Poster
BOLTS NO LONGER THERE HOLDING THE TITANIUM INTERFACE CAP AND END CAP WITH VIEWING PORTAL?
FWIW: A Titanium interface face cap (ring-shape) seen in a debris recovery video appeared to me, not to be bolted to a Titanium end cap? If so, then the bolts failed to hold an interface cap to the end cap.
The Titanium interface cap may have been the cap that was bolted to the hinged Titanium end cap (used to get in-and-out of the carbon fiber hull)?
The 18 bolts used to secure a Titanium interface cap to a Titanium end cap w/viewing portal, may have all failed?
Maybe one (primary) failure led to a cascading series of events (failures) as a result of a catastrophic implosion?
Video source, interface cap at about :27 and maybe :49 and 1:10 seconds into video, "U.S Coast Guard recovers presumed human remains from Titan debris," NBC New, posted on YouTube
FWIW: A Titanium interface face cap (ring-shape) seen in a debris recovery video appeared to me, not to be bolted to a Titanium end cap? If so, then the bolts failed to hold an interface cap to the end cap.
The Titanium interface cap may have been the cap that was bolted to the hinged Titanium end cap (used to get in-and-out of the carbon fiber hull)?
The 18 bolts used to secure a Titanium interface cap to a Titanium end cap w/viewing portal, may have all failed?
Maybe one (primary) failure led to a cascading series of events (failures) as a result of a catastrophic implosion?
Video source, interface cap at about :27 and maybe :49 and 1:10 seconds into video, "U.S Coast Guard recovers presumed human remains from Titan debris," NBC New, posted on YouTube
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Orphia Nay said:
FTFY.
Too soon?
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Too soon for me then! 
erwinl
Illuminator
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I saw that as well.
In my, admittedly amateur, eyes, this would mean that the composite hull had failed first and that the bolts (and the view port) failed in turn when the water came rushing in and slammed into the front and back titanium ends. A bit like a water hammer on steroids so to say.
SpuriusMaximus
Penultimate Amazing
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As I understand the MATERIAL was rated for 1300m, not the window itself. Presumably they could cut it thick enough to withstand whatever pressure... at least a few times. Just like it was with the carbon fibre in the hull.
erwinl
Illuminator
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If the window material was rated for 1300 meters, would that not mean that this was the maximum the window itself was rated at?
SpuriusMaximus
Penultimate Amazing
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Basically, yes, but as I was saying, not necessarily immediately. It can work a few times before the stress gets to it. Long enough to create a false sense of security.
But in the end, really, it was like Russian roulette. You can try once or twice and turn out not dead. But if you keep pulling the trigger, well, you still have at most 6 tries
But in the end, really, it was like Russian roulette. You can try once or twice and turn out not dead. But if you keep pulling the trigger, well, you still have at most 6 tries
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The Atheist
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Nice!
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Interesting that human remains have been found.
Someone suggested that the bodies would have been turned into "strawberry jam" by the force of the implosion. I wonder what condition these remains were in? Some of the mechanical parts I see seem to be fairly intact.
Someone suggested that the bodies would have been turned into "strawberry jam" by the force of the implosion. I wonder what condition these remains were in? Some of the mechanical parts I see seem to be fairly intact.