Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity

[Ducky]

Cite the source, DOC, as your post is intellectually dishonest without giving credit, and violates Rule 4 of this forum.


Edit: Also, it would be nice to see Benjamin Hart's assertions substantiated with a primary source, doc. Last time we did this dance, everyone here pretty much destroyed Kennedy's inaccuracies and assertions. How about you think for yourself, provide primary sources, and present your ideas without the intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

 

[Cleon]

Cite the source, DOC, as your post is intellectually dishonest without giving credit, and violates Rule 4 of this forum.


Edit: Also, it would be nice to see Benjamin Hart's assertions substantiated with a primary source, doc. Last time we did this dance, everyone here pretty much destroyed Kennedy's inaccuracies and assertions. How about you think for yourself, provide primary sources, and present your ideas without the intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

Personally, I find it very telling that DOC cares so little about factual accuracy.

 

[Ladewig]

Personally, I find it very telling that DOC cares so little about factual accuracy.

Seconded

 

[DOC]

Cite the source, DOC, as your post is intellectually dishonest without giving credit, and violates Rule 4 of this forum.


Edit: Also, it would be nice to see Benjamin Hart's assertions substantiated with a primary source, doc. Last time we did this dance, everyone here pretty much destroyed Kennedy's inaccuracies and assertions. How about you think for yourself, provide primary sources, and present your ideas without the intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

If a polititian ran today and said he would punish all Sabbath breakers, I wonder how that would go over... Maybe that was why Jefferson was so diligent going to church every Sunday in the congressional rotunda, he didn't want to pay the fine... I'll be looking over peoples comments about Kennedy's assertions I made in Post #145. That's how I found the Sabbath article. So we have to thank Kennedy for informing us about that. It was quite interesting... Some people in here seem to be in a hurry for some reason -- but I think the great thing about these forums is that there's plenty of time to let the truth come out.

 

[fuelair]

If a polititian ran today and said he would punish all Sabbath breakers, I wonder how that would go over... Maybe that was why Jefferson was so diligent going to church every Sunday in the congressional rotunda, he didn't want to pay the fine... I'll be looking over peoples comments about Kennedy's assertions I made in Post #145. That's how I found the Sabbath article. So we have to thank Kennedy for informing us about that. It was quite interesting... Some people in here seem to be in a hurry for some reason -- but I think the great thing about these forums is that there's plenty of time to let the truth come out.

Actually, you have been told the truth and had it explained to you why you are what we like to call "wrong". So, I would have to say the truth came out several pages of this thread ago.

 

[hgc]

So we have to thank Kennedy for informing us about that. It was quite interesting... Some people in here seem to be in a hurry for some reason -- but I think the great thing about these forums is that there's plenty of time to let the truth come out.

Thank you, Dr. Kennedy, for making me ignorant! Without your guidance, I would not be properly fattened for the slaughter.

 

[Ducky]

If a polititian ran today and said he would punish all Sabbath breakers, I wonder how that would go over... Maybe that was why Jefferson was so diligent going to church every Sunday in the congressional rotunda, he didn't want to pay the fine... I'll be looking over peoples comments about Kennedy's assertions I made in Post #145. That's how I found the Sabbath article. So we have to thank Kennedy for informing us about that. It was quite interesting... Some people in here seem to be in a hurry for some reason -- but I think the great thing about these forums is that there's plenty of time to let the truth come out.

In 207 posts I have yet to see you actually acknowledge any of the many posts refuting Dr. Kennedy's assertions or calling into question his factual inaccuracies. Why should we expect you to change that behavior now?

Ps. around here citing a creationist website that doesn't cite its own sources will get you nothing on this forum. You're not being clever, or even original.

 

[DOC]

In 207 posts I have yet to see you actually acknowledge any of the many posts refuting Dr. Kennedy's assertions or calling into question his factual inaccuracies. Why should we expect you to change that behavior now?

Ps. around here citing a creationist website that doesn't cite its own sources will get you nothing on this forum. You're not being clever, or even original.

The only inaccuracies I've found so far are minor things like the dates his mother and wife died. But if we are to belleve Wiki, Jefferson was severely depressed for several years after his wife died and this depression certainly overlapped his time in France. But on the larger issues like punishing Sabbath breakers, days of fasting, and including the word God in a motto there seems to be substance in what Kennedy is saying. See my next post for more info.

 

[Cleon]

The only inaccuracies I've found so far are minor things like everything Kennedy said about Jefferson from his philosophy to his acts in office down to his basic biographical information.

There, I fixed that for you.

But on the larger issues like punishing Sabbath breakers, days of fasting, and including the word God in a motto there seems to be substance in what Kennedy is saying.

You're assuming that what he's saying is factually accurate--which it isn't.

 

[DOC]

There was some questioning about Jefferson and the word "God" in the National Motto (that Kennedy metioned). David Barton in the following article "The Founders on Public Religion Espresssion" states that Jefferson "proposed" that the Great Seal of the United States depict a story from the Bible and include the word "God" in its motto. See the 13th item in the article. And his footnote at bottom of the page says the source is "The papers of Thomas Jefferson".

http://www.leaderu.com/common/founderspubrelig.html

 

[Cleon]

There was some questioning about Jefferson and the word "God" in the National Motto. David Barton in the following article states that Jefferson "proposed" that the Great Seal of the United States depict a story from the Bible and include the word "God" in its motto. See the 13th item in the article. And his footnote at bottom of the page says the source is "The papers of Thomas Jefferson".

http://www.leaderu.com/common/founderspubrelig.html

Nope. Of course, he also repeats a number of other half-truths and red herrings (like the bit about the "federal funds to build churches on Indian land" that we demolished on the first page.)

It seems he has as little regard for factual accuracy as Kennedy and you do.

What a surprise.

 

[DOC]

There, I fixed that for you.



You're assuming that what he's saying is factually accurate--which it isn't.

I would prefer you "don't change my quotes" no matter what you say after it. That would seem to me to be some kind of a rule violation and if there isn't a rule, there should be.

 

[Cleon]

I would prefer you "don't change my quotes" no matter what you say after it. That would seem to me to be some kind of a rule violation and if there isn't a rule, there should be.

It's not, there isn't, and if you SERIOUSLY expect me to be concerned about your being offended, well, it's no wonder you swallow all this tripe.

 

[DOC]

Nope. Of course, he also repeats a number of other half-truths and red herrings (like the bit about the "federal funds to build churches on Indian land" that we demolished on the first page.)

It seems he has as little regard for factual accuracy as Kennedy and you do.

What a surprise.

The "Papers of Thomas Jefferson" is his source for his info about the Great seal. You can't get a better source than that.

 

[Cleon]

The "Papers of Thomas Jefferson" is his source for his info about the Great seal. You can't get a better source than that.

You're assuming the "Papers of Thomas Jefferson" actually say what he says they say. Given the rest of the article, that's not a good wager to make.

But to go on debunking the BS:


Here's another one, listing the various proposals.

Franklin made the proposal for the "God" motto, not Jefferson.

 

[Ducky]

There was some questioning about Jefferson and the word "God" in the National Motto (that Kennedy metioned). David Barton in the following article "The Founders on Public Religion Espresssion" states that Jefferson "proposed" that the Great Seal of the United States depict a story from the Bible and include the word "God" in its motto. See the 13th item in the article. And his footnote at bottom of the page says the source is "The papers of Thomas Jefferson".

http://www.leaderu.com/common/founderspubrelig.html

Every part of the post is inaccurate, and has been dealt with by many posts in this thread, which you have ignored.

Why do you willfully ignore posts that show Kennedy to be completely wrong so many times?


ETA:


"The Papers of Thomas Jefferson" is not a cite. If you want to see how to cite source documents, see post #2 in this thread. I have quoted many many things from "the Papers of Thomas Jefferson" in this thread that you have conveniently ignored, and that show the above post of yours false. I also cited what docuement, and where in the document it can be found. Your BS website does nothing of the sort, which is intellectually dishonest.

 

[ceo_esq]

"The Papers of Thomas Jefferson" is not a cite.

To be fair, the cite to The Papers of Thomas Jefferson on the website DOC linked does look like a legitimate bibliographical citation. The table of contents to that edition appears elsewhere on the web and would appear to confirm that it does contain Jefferson's proposal for a national seal.

 

[Ducky]

To be fair, the cite to The Papers of Thomas Jefferson on the website DOC linked does look like a legitimate bibliographical citation. The table of contents to that edition appears elsewhere on the web and would appear to confirm that it does contain Jefferson's proposal for a national seal.

To be fair, I've been asking him from the start to use his own sources, not just spam through a thread with links to wall builders, creationist sites or everyone else he prefers to have think for him. Doc continues to state he just wants it out there for everyone to look at, but then doesn't actually source the cites himself, preferring to use sites like Wallbuilders that is questionably interpreting selective quotes at best. The point is, since he claims to have an advanced degree, he should know how to present his ideas (though it seems he's only interested in Kennedy's ideas) with his own sources, without using politically motivated spin sites.

That, and he refuses to acknowledge any posts made that have refuted his positions.

 

[DOC]

To be fair, I've been asking him from the start to use his own sources, not just spam through a thread with links to wall builders, creationist sites or everyone else he prefers to have think for him. Doc continues to state he just wants it out there for everyone to look at, but then doesn't actually source the cites himself, preferring to use sites like Wallbuilders that is questionably interpreting selective quotes at best. The point is, since he claims to have an advanced degree, he should know how to present his ideas (though it seems he's only interested in Kennedy's ideas) with his own sources, without using politically motivated spin sites.

That, and he refuses to acknowledge any posts made that have refuted his positions.

As to whether or not I have an advanced degree I have never said...

Any posts other people make should be able to stand on their own. And don't need me to validate or acknowledge them.

Kennedy made 15 assertions (listed in post 145). I've only heard 4 or 5 of those 15 contested by others. I just responded above to the (contested) assertions about the Great Seal and using the word "God" in the national motto. So your statement that I have refused to acknowledge any posts that have refuted my positions is untrue.

What difference does it make where a source comes from if its true. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson are the Papers of Thomas Jefferson no matter what the belief system of the quoter is. Any large city library should have a volume set of the "The Papers of Thomas Jefferson" in their reference section.

 

[Fitter]

snip
What difference does it make where a source comes from if its true. /snip

I believe that is the point that everyone seems to be trying to get you to grasp. If the quotes original source isn't presented it's veracity MUST be held in doubt.