Merged Their Return

[Zanders]

*"This man is dead from a gun shot wound."

"Where's the gun?"

*"We haven't found the gun, yet."

"Then how do you know it was a gun shot?

*"Well we've got this hole, a bullet, and powder burns."

"So, SHOW me the gun."

*"We haven't found it yet."

"THEN HE WASN'T SHOT, NOT WITH A GUN, AT LEAST!"

Nice, you assume that there is actually evidence that a specific kind of device you don't even know exists did it, when there are already good enough explanation being offered. Oh, and there is such thing as something we don't know yet, without assuming it was something that pretty much violates all facts that we know. We know that guns exists, and we know how they work.

If we have no idea how they did it, why speculate that it was something so absurd?

Now, there is no proof of such a thing as this ancient super technology, so there is no reason to assume it existed based on one artifact you don't understand.


Oh, and where is your proof of that ascension I keep asking about? Why are you avoiding answering? And how about some proof that some sort of super technology disappeared with them.

 

[GeeMack]

I DIDN'T EVER say any such thing about Puma Punku.

I said it would take working by 'hand'...100 master masons working decades.

OR

less time with 'advanced technology'

So where are we? You don't know who built it. You don't know what it was made from. You don't know how it was built. You don't know how long it took. You don't know how many people were involved. You don't know what tools they used. You don't know how long it would take to do it today. You don't know how many people it would require to do it today. You don't know what tools it would take to do it today.

So you pretty much admit to not knowing anything about it at all. And how was it again that was supposed to translate into evidence in support of something?

 

[Zanders]

So where are we? You don't know who built it. You don't know what it was made from. You don't know how it was built. You don't know how long it took. You don't know how many people were involved. You don't know what tools they used. You don't know how long it would take to do it today. You don't know how many people it would require to do it today. You don't know what tools it would take to do it today.

So you pretty much admit to not knowing anything about it at all. And how was it again that was supposed to translate into evidence in support of something?

He doesn't know how or who made it, but he's CERTAIN they couldn't have done it. So it must have been super technology that they carried away when they "Ascended" (still waiting for an explanation of where you got that)

"Wow, that's impressive. I wish we knew how they built it. It's really impressive"
"It was ancient super technology that they once possessed. It had to be, I know no other way it could be done. It was most likely taken away with them when they ascended."
"But why super technology?"
"Because, it had to be"
"Is there any sign that such a thing existed?"
"IT HAD TO"

 

[Stray Cat]

I DIDN'T EVER say any such thing about Puma Punku.
I said it would take working by 'hand'...100 master masons working decades.
OR
less time with 'advanced technology'

And was the place built in less than decades?

Something as simple (in comparison) as Stonehenge took centuries to develop into the grand monument it was (and they never even got around to putting the roof on).

The Sagrada Família (Gaudi Cathedral) still isn't finished, they've been on with that for over 100 years and they think it will take another decade at least to complete it.

 

[bruto]

I've taken a carbide tipped tool to granite.

What kind of tool should I test on what kind of stone?

I'll save the dust, and we'll get an understanding as to how many hours it would take to remove 1 ounce of material. While I couldn't do the fine inner corner work, I am quite decent at roughing out material.

I would guess forged bronze and sandstone. Of course you would have to know how to use the tools, and what configuration of tools to make for the job, which neither I nor you know at the moment, but I think it reasonable to assume the ancient masons did. I think it's also reasonable to speculate that the precisely carved and nearly identical sandstone blocks could have been done by well trained workers provided with tools and templates.

For the harder stones, which were fitted but not so intricately carved, I've seen demonstrations of how the precise fitting of these or the famous Inca stones could be done with stone tools used just right. It's not as high-tech as you'd think.

I find it quite easy to believe that a community of the size in question could have supported a hundred master masons in a job that took decades. Many grand structures and projects take a long time to complete.

 

[bruto]

So where are we? You don't know who built it. You don't know what it was made from. You don't know how it was built. You don't know how long it took. You don't know how many people were involved. You don't know what tools they used. You don't know how long it would take to do it today. You don't know how many people it would require to do it today. You don't know what tools it would take to do it today.

So you pretty much admit to not knowing anything about it at all. And how was it again that was supposed to translate into evidence in support of something?

His evidence appears to be that he once tried to sculpt some granite and ruined his chisel. If you're looking for the sharpest tool in the shed, the King is not carrying it.

 

[Marcus]

I don't know who they were, exactly. But they didn't disappear, they ascended. And yes, I think they took/have technology with them.

This is so vague, it's just meaningless. You don't know who they were, and don't know where they went. They "ascended". Perhaps they went to the moon? Obviously not, it's well observed. You refuse to make any further guesses, perhaps you have seen that each one can be debunked. There is no place in the solar system for them to hide, you really need biblical age goat herders to think of "the heavens" as some mysterious unknown.

Why do you need the technology? Why isn't the result of that technology sufficient?

It would be if we had any results of advanced technology, but all we have is skilled masonry.

 

[BTMO]

I don't know who they were, exactly.

Just for fun, I suggest we refer to them from now on as the ET Corn Gods.

(pause for laughter from the old timers and cognoscenti)

 

[Elizabeth I]

Just for fun, I suggest we refer to them from now on as the ET Corn Gods.

Seconded.

 

[RoboTimbo]

*"This man is dead from a gun shot wound."

"Where's the gun?"

*"We haven't found the gun, yet."

"Then how do you know it was a gun shot?

*"Well we've got this hole, a bullet, and powder burns."

"So, SHOW me the gun."

*"We haven't found it yet."

"THEN HE WASN'T SHOT, NOT WITH A GUN, AT LEAST!"

This would be closer to your scenario:

"This man is dead."

"How did he die?"

"I don't know. There are no marks on him. It must be 750 giraffes came in through the window and sucked the oxygen out of the room."

 

[Stray Cat]

Before ascending to we don't know where....

 

[King of the Americas]

So, does the skeptical community accept that there IS or that there was "lost knowledge"...? Meaning is it possible that Man was once way more capable, then there was a great loss, possibly caused by some global catastrophe, and that history was forced to hit the reset button, per say? (*The two different kinds of stone work at Puma Punku being evidence of this.)

OR

Does skepticism dismiss that notion without absolute proof of it?

---

I propose that at some point in the past, there was on this earth, possibly interacting with early Homo Sapiens, a better/more technologically capable entity then we were. I do not suppose to know nor will I remark upon their origin. I hold only that Men 'looked up to them', and recorded their existence as soon as he could do so and continues even now to do so.

I propose, they are no longer 'here', but that they have ascended to the heavens, and by in large no longer interact with Man.

If these propositions hold truth, how and where might a global people invite 'them back down'?

 

[EHocking]

So, does the skeptical community accept that there IS or that there was "lost knowledge"...? Meaning is it possible that Man was once way more capable, then there was a great loss, possibly caused by some global catastrophe, and that history was forced to hit the reset button, per say? (*The two different kinds of stone work at Puma Punku being evidence of this.)

No, it is not.

OR

Does skepticism dismiss that notion without absolute proof of it?

There is not even partial evidence for this.

It is purely fantastical conjecture on your part.

"goddidit" is not a logical or scientific proposal

I propose that at some point in the past, there was on this earth, possibly interacting with early Homo Sapiens, a better/more technologically capable entity then we were. I do not suppose to know nor will I remark upon their origin. I hold only that Men 'looked up to them', and recorded their existence as soon as he could do so and continues even now to do so.

I propose, they are no longer 'here', but that they have ascended to the heavens,

Show evidence for the "heavens" where these mythical beings might reside.

and by in large no longer interact with Man.

If these propositions hold truth, how and where might a global people invite 'them back down'?

Since these proposition have no bearing on known evidence, let alone "truth", there is little further to conjecture.

 

[King of the Americas]

No, it is not.
There is not even partial evidence for this.

It is purely fantastical conjecture on your part.

"goddidit" is not a logical or scientific proposal

Show evidence for the "heavens" where these mythical beings might reside.Since these proposition have no bearing on known evidence, let alone "truth", there is little further to conjecture.

No, it isn't evidence, or no there is no "lost knowledge or civilizations"?

Fanciful conjecture, OR the most like explanation for the oldest stuff, being the most difficult?

"goddidit" is NOT my argument.

An earlier more capable version of someone did it, but they are gone now.

I don't know where they are, so I can't tell you where to look...I can only point you toward the heavens. If we were standing on the south bank of the Red River, I'd point you the north and west, at sunset.

 

[King of the Americas]

This is so vague, it's just meaningless. ...


It would be if we had any results of advanced technology, but all we have is skilled masonry.

How could I possibly be specific???

It is the AMOUNT of mastery level work present that is at odds with the people and time needed to do something like that.

Normal workers, applying normal hand tools may not have done it. The structural and dimensional accuracy LOOKS like the work of something mass produced, by an as of yet undetermined nature BUT DEFINITELY ADVANCED.

This is not novice masonry...and there's too much of it to do WITHOUT WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

Someone in the ancient past had more knowledge and ability than we give them credit for, and they are gone.

 

[Marcus]

I propose, they are no longer 'here', but that they have ascended to the heavens, and by in large no longer interact with Man.

Venus? Io? The asteriods? "The heavens" is a phrase someone 2,000 years ago would use if they were completly ignorant of what the solar system contained, or even that there was a solar system.

 

[King of the Americas]

Venus? Io? The asteriods? "The heavens" is a phrase someone 2,000 years ago would use if they were completly ignorant of what the solar system contained, or even that there was a solar system.

IIIIIIIIII

Doooooooooon't

KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW...

 

[Marcus]

How could I possibly be specific???

It is the AMOUNT of mastery level work present that is at odds with the people and time needed to do something like that.

Normal workers, applying normal hand tools may not have done it. The structural and dimensional accuracy LOOKS like the work of something mass produced, by an as of yet undetermined nature BUT DEFINITELY ADVANCED.


This is not novice masonry...and there's too much of it to do WITHOUT WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

Someone in the ancient past had more knowledge and ability than we give them credit for, and they are gone.

You are the only one here not giving the builders credit for their knowledge and ability. They were just as smart as we are. They didn't have our technology, but they didn't need it, they were carving stone, not building skyscrapers or aircraft.

 

[EHocking]

No, it isn't evidence, or no there is no "lost knowledge or civilizations"?

Both.
The stonework at Puma Punko offers no evidence for any of your fantacies.
There is no evidence for lost knowledge.

Now, lost civilisations, there is evidence for, and it shows, not so much that knowledge is lost, rather that knowledge and techniques are replaced by better techniques. e.g. the Pharonic Egyptian period was stone-age technology, on being over-run, this technology was replaced with bronze-age tech, and a subsequent empire smashing replaced that with iron-age tech.

Fanciful conjecture, OR the most like explanation for the oldest stuff, being the most difficult?

You compare stacking some blocks in a pyramid shape to a man walking on the moon and declare that the former is the most difficult?

Stone Age technology has nothing on what we can build these days.

"goddidit" is NOT my argument.

god, higher beings, aliens, angels - all purile and childish romanticism, springing from argument from ignorance and a refusal to accept evidence presented to you.

This approach is evident in posts on other subjects.

An earlier more capable version of someone did it, but they are gone now.

There is absolutely no evidence for such a fantasy.

I don't know where they are, so I can't tell you where to look...I can only point you toward the heavens. If we were standing on the south bank of the Red River, I'd point you the north and west, at sunset.

i.e., goddidit...

 

[Marcus]

IIIIIIIIII

Doooooooooon't

KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW...

Of course you don't. You can't look around and speculate about a place where they might be because there isn't any. How much easier it is to just throw your hands up and say "the heavens" than to learn more about our neighborhood and discover that your corn gods simply aren't there.