Merged Their Return

King of the Americas said:
How could I possibly be specific???

It is the AMOUNT of mastery level work present that is at odds with the people and time needed to do something like that.

Normal workers, applying normal hand tools may not have done it. The structural and dimensional accuracy LOOKS like the work of something mass produced, by an as of yet undetermined nature BUT DEFINITELY ADVANCED.

This is not novice masonry...and there's too much of it to do WITHOUT WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

Someone in the ancient past had more knowledge and ability than we give them credit for, and they are gone.
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Looks like to you, to others, not so much.
 
King of the Americas said:
How could I possibly be specific???

It is the AMOUNT of mastery level work present that is at odds with the people and time needed to do something like that.

Normal workers, applying normal hand tools may not have done it. The structural and dimensional accuracy LOOKS like the work of something mass produced, by an as of yet undetermined nature BUT DEFINITELY ADVANCED.

This is not novice masonry...and there's too much of it to do WITHOUT WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

Someone in the ancient past had more knowledge and ability than we give them credit for, and they are gone.
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And?

They were competant craftsmen. The skilled tradesmen used semi-skilled and unskilled workers and apprentices to support their activities, vastly multiplying their efforts.

I suspect in many cases, their actual lives depended on the quality of their work. It wasn't something they did as a hobby - it was something they did to stay alive, either through earning a living, through not being executed for sloppy work, or because they thought their god would smite them or the sun wouldn't come up if they cut corners (small pun intended)

There is no evidence of advanced technology in these sites, but there is plenty of evidence of appropriate technology.

Look at the Antikythera mechanism. No one (well, no one who knows what they are talking about) attribute this to advanced technology. It is unfreakinbelievably complex and beyond what we thought the ancient Greeks were capable of but (and this is the important bit) - but not outside of their known ability to work metal and perform complex calculations. It was the marrying of those two skills that make it stunning. I've seen this device in Athens, and it is truly amazing. I stood in jaw-dropped amazement just staring at it in the museum there.

The bottom line is your thought experiment is flawed. There is no credible evidence for ET Corn Gods (tee hee) visiting earth now or in the past. There is no evidence at all for ancient humans or anyone else "ascending" - outside of the Star Gate and Babylon 5 and Star Trek universes.

Here in the real world, things are a bit more pragmatic. People are now, and have always been, good with their hands. They make things. Clever things.

It started with fire and the wheel and got a lot more complex rapidly.

Deal with it.
 
BTMO said:
And?

They were competant craftsmen. The skilled tradesmen used semi-skilled and unskilled workers and apprentices to support their activities, vastly multiplying their efforts.

I suspect in many cases, their actual lives depended on the quality of their work. It wasn't something they did as a hobby - it was something they did to stay alive, either through earning a living, through not being executed for sloppy work, or because they thought their god would smite them or the sun wouldn't come up if they cut corners (small pun intended)

There is no evidence of advanced technology in these sites, but there is plenty of evidence of appropriate technology.

Look at the Antikythera mechanism. No one (well, no one who knows what they are talking about) attribute this to advanced technology. It is unfreakinbelievably complex and beyond what we thought the ancient Greeks were capable of but (and this is the important bit) - but not outside of their known ability to work metal and perform complex calculations. It was the marrying of those two skills that make it stunning. I've seen this device in Athens, and it is truly amazing. I stood in jaw-dropped amazement just staring at it in the museum there.

The bottom line is your thought experiment is flawed. There is no credible evidence for ET Corn Gods (tee hee) visiting earth now or in the past. There is no evidence at all for ancient humans or anyone else "ascending" - outside of the Star Gate and Babylon 5 and Star Trek universes.

Here in the real world, things are a bit more pragmatic. People are now, and have always been, good with their hands. They make things. Clever things.

It started with fire and the wheel and got a lot more complex rapidly.

Deal with it.
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Guess we need to use the CornDog transform on this:

I couldn't do it>couldn't be done by humans>notthealiens.

Ascended>descended using the rule a=de
 
King of the Americas said:
Interesting that 'I' am the one with actual experience shaping stone...
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Look at it from the point of view of the craftsmen who shaped the stone. Hundreds of years of tradition. A master carver as a supervisor who no doubt had decades of experience. The craftsmen themselves brought up and trained in a culture which highly valued these skills. How many years have you spent in intensive training for this art? I just don't buy comparing you to these people.
 
Marcus said:
Look at it from the point of view of the craftsmen who shaped the stone. Hundreds of years of tradition. A master carver as a supervisor who no doubt had decades of experience. The craftsmen themselves brought up and trained in a culture which highly valued these skills. How many years have you spent in intensive training for this art? I just don't buy comparing you to these people.
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THAT is the only view I am looking at it from. Pick up and tool, and gather some understanding...
 
King of the Americas, I think that you missed my last post. I asked you to explain something I still don't understand.
 
Zanders said:
Show me any evidence that some sort of ancient advanced technology existed. Anything. But you can't use things such as Puma Punku, I want actual remains, illustrations or writing about this technology. That stuff is all strangely absent.
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What would a 'working' scale model glider represent to you. What does that artifact tell you about those who made it?

The thing you are 'missing' is the level of precision, and how much of that work is at Puma Punku.

What you are looking for has been "LOST", which is my point. Whatever did that work was 'advanced'.
 
King of the Americas said:
What you are looking for has been "LOST", which is my point. Whatever did that work was 'advanced'.
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Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
 
Pure Argent said:
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
Repetition does not equal truth.
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IGNORANCE of evidence is an argument.
 
King of the Americas said:
What would a 'working' scale model glider represent to you. What does that artifact tell you about those who made it?

The thing you are 'missing' is the level of precision, and how much of that work is at Puma Punku.

What you are looking for has been "LOST", which is my point. Whatever did that work was 'advanced'.
Click to expand...

Where is the proof that there was any technology that went anywhere? Where is the proof that anyone "ascended" and took it with them? You are just filling in the gaps with what you think should be there.

How could all traces of it ever existing be lost while we have some sort of evidence of so many other things about their culture? You think there would be a hint that it existed other than masonry you can't explain (because you weren't there and didn't see how they did it)
 
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King of the Americas said:
Interesting that 'I' am the one with actual experience shaping stone...
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According to your own account, you have only a small amount of actual experience shaping stone, and that a failure.

That said, I think one could probably label some of the work in question as "mass production." Most of the photos of these sites show that the huge andesite and other hard stone blocks, while quarried and cut in quantity, were not what you'd call "mass produced, but it appears that some of the sandstone blocks were carved to sufficient precision to be interchangeable, which is quite impressive, and could legitimately be called mass production. What you seem continually to discount here is the meaning of mass production: that large, complex and precise work can thus be done by specialist laborers without overall mastery.

Of course how you look at all this depends on what you mean by "advanced." The indigenous peoples of South America were advanced in many ways, certainly more so than the invading Spaniards cared to admit.
Considering the history of the conquest of South and Central America it's no wonder then that many details of how they did what they did must now be guessed, but this requires no scenario of mysteriously lost knowledge or advanced beings flying off in spacecraft. All it requires is for an entire continent's peoples to be overrun, their literature burned as heresy, and the population decimated by epidemics, murder and enslavement. And for that scenario we need not stretch the bounds of credulity, since we can read about it in recorded history.
 
RoboTimbo said:
You should have absolutely no problem with that statue of David then. How far along are you with it? Or do you still think aliens made it since you can't do it?
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I tell you what, if you supple the marble, I'll get started...

I think, given enough time I COULD do it. That said, I am admittedly going to take longer than 3 years to complete it.

Let me know when I can expect the stone to be delivered, and I'll move some stuff around to make room. ABSOLUTELY NO DISCOLORED FRACTURE MARKS, or I'll ship it back, regardless of the cost.
 
King of the Americas said:
I tell you what, if you supple the marble, I'll get started...

I think, given enough time I COULD do it. That said, I am admittedly going to take longer than 3 years to complete it.

Let me know when I can expect the stone to be delivered, and I'll move some stuff around to make room. ABSOLUTELY NO DISCOLORED FRACTURE MARKS, or I'll ship it back, regardless of the cost.
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I'm waiting for the sandstone blocks to arrive here first. How many of them are you sending? I'd suggest 20 to start.

While you're waiting, start with whatever rock you have handy and post a picture of your statue of David here. Remember, if you can't do it, that means that you think only aliens can.
 
bruto said:
According to your own account, you have only a small amount of actual experience shaping stone, and that a failure.

...
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Even my minimalistc experience is more than anyone here has noted. I HAVE used hand tools and 'advanced machines' to carve into granite. Once you hit a chisel with a hammer, and make a tiny bruise on a piece of granite, you will look at that masonry work differently.

I had no failures with my carving. Tools get blunted, the sofer the tool, the faster it happens. My carbide tipped tool needed sharpening twice in the 9 letters I carved.

Whoever built those stones had the ability to remove massive amounts of stone, with literally unbelievable precision. With no written language or metal tools, this would be an impossible feat.

Pick up a chisel and garner an understanding as to what that work represents.
 
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