THE WASP-18b & Space Probes Mysteries

The fact that "space wind" is not equal to "kinetic pressure" means that your idea predicts that there are no stable orbits and that the Solar System does not exist.

Wrong
Part of the KE to the KE is transmitted from the inner planets
The planets are thrown outwards until the space wind equalize the resistance against motion
It’s all an automatically process like gears and synchroniser in a gearbox. Nice perfect and beautiful.

Yes, you claim that, but you have not shown it. SOP seems to have done a proper job of evaluating your equations

3+2 = 5

You can show it more complicated like SOP did

2 + 2+ 1 – 4 + 4 = 5

BUT It’s not necessary

It was his claimed interpretation that was manipulated crap. – Capito ?

The consequence of you making these errors is that your conclusion that "space wind" is exactly equal to "kinetic resistance" is wrong.

No it is not

For example

Mercury used the KE it is requiring to resist
  • its own motion
  • rotation
  • maintain resistance by having moon in orbit

The rest of the KE left is used to push Mercury further away from the Sun.
BUT Mercury have one more bill to pay = energy that MUST be transmitted to the planets further out.

Mercury has the highest bill that matter to pay because all the outer planets resist Mercury’s obit. Hence Mercury MUST transmit KE to all the other planets. Therefore the distance between the planets is no coincident exactly like the distance between gears in a gearbox also not is coincident. Everything moves like a unity until the centrifugal KE and the resistance automatically equalizes each other as a unity.. It all act like a unity because it is a unity.

It’s the exact same that’s happens in a galaxy. The inner stars works harder, hence these are slowing down and one by one they fall from the sky. After some billion years our Sun will fall into the central black hole, - and that’s it (

This is why galaxy arms never will touch each other (which also is a mystery that automatically is solved just by accepting that matter sucks space and follow the consequences) .
 
It seems like you created the your 'resistance/negative velocity' formula in a retroactive way. That is, you found what the 'resistance' needed to be in order to solve the mystery, and then based a formula around it.

It's creative, but it's not science.
 
3+2 = 5

You can show it more complicated like SOP did

2 + 2+ 1 – 4 + 4 = 5

BUT It’s not necessary

It was his claimed interpretation that was manipulated crap. – Capito ?
Io non ho capito! He showed that you made a mistake. Why would that not be necessary?

Is it so difficult for you to point out exactly where he manipulated it? If he has done any manipulation, he must have used an equation that is not identical to yours - can you show that? Or he must have made calculations wrong - can you show that? There are plenty of people here who can judge if he got it right, not a single one has raised his voice so far. I guess you will take it as persecution that you are alone in this.
 
It might interest Bjarne that a new study has looked at the effect on the Solar system if Einsteinian physics had not been a better description of gravity than Newtonian physics: Einstein's Gravity Protects Earth.

It turns out that there would have been a 60% chance that Mercury had collided with either Venus or the Sun, whereas with general relativity, that chance drops to 1%.

This is obviously bad news for somebody who thinks that Newtons laws of gravity must be true because they are easier to understand than general relativity.
 
The most silly thing is that all of Bjarne's equetions and hypotheses rest on the claim that there is a resistance to motion in space. Bjarne maintains that an object cannot keep moving at constant speed without energy being fed to it, even if it is in an otherwise frictionless environment (like space). This is such a blatant contradiction to verified physics that it defies imagination.

If Bjarne was right in this, space probes wouldn't work, gyro compasses wouldn't work, particle accelerators wouldn't work, comets wouldn't exist, hight energy interstellar particles wouldn't exist, etc, etc.

ETA: Oh, and Bjarne will now tell you that all scientist working with this for the last century or so have been blind and dumb, and so engrossed in their semi-religious beliefs that they haven't noticed this.

Hans
 
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If Bjarne was right in this, space probes wouldn't work, gyro compasses wouldn't work, particle accelerators wouldn't work, comets wouldn't exist, hight energy interstellar particles wouldn't exist, etc, etc.
Well, he does postulate another imaginary force, the "space wind" that exactly cancels out the effects of this resistance to motion, so that both are impossible to detect, except in those cases where they are not, which happens to be everywhere somebody has proposed that that we need to refine our models, but he has never predicted a difference from accepted models.
 
Wrong
Part of the KE to the KE is transmitted from the inner planets
The planets are thrown outwards until the space wind equalize the resistance against motion
It’s all an automatically process like gears and synchroniser in a gearbox. Nice perfect and beautiful.
Wrong yet again Bjarne.
What nice, perfect and beautiful gibberish from you :eye-poppi.
Kinetic energy is energy. Energy is a property of a system like mass or spin. You cannot ""transmit" KE. This is one of the really dumb mistakes that people see from science crackpots. Please do not make that silly mistake.

But you are even more wrong. Mercury (using your numbers and equations) is not in a stable orbit. The "kinetic resistance" is greater than the "space wind"

Your web site state states that 1.29 = 1.28 = 1.27
Capito ?

And you ignored the questions so I will rephrase and datestamp them.
First asked 22 October 2009:
The bad arithemetic on Bjarne's web page one more time post calculates the "space wind" and "kinetic resistance" of Mercury when his numbers from his web page are put into his equations from your his page. The result is "space wind" = 1.2805 * 10-8 and "kinetic resistance" = 1.2878 * 10-8.
His web page states that the "space wind" = 1.27 * 10-8 and "kinetic resistance" = 1.27 * 10-8.
  • What is the error in the post's arithmetic?
If you agree with the arithmetic then
  • Do you know that 1.28 * 10-8 is not equal to 1.27 * 10-8?
  • Do you know that 1.29 * 10-8 is not equal to 1.27 * 10-8?
 
Well, he does postulate another imaginary force, the "space wind" that exactly cancels out the effects of this resistance to motion, so that both are impossible to detect, except in those cases where they are not, which happens to be everywhere somebody has proposed that that we need to refine our models, but he has never predicted a difference from accepted models.
Exactly. However, his 'space wind' might at best cancel out the resistance in regular, near-circular orbits which are close to the ecliptica. How should it work for a long-period comet in an extremely elliptical orbit with a high inclination? How should it work for a particle racing through deep space at a considerable fraction of c? How should it work for both a retrograde and a pro-grade moon? :nope:

Hans
 
-------------------

It seems like you created the your 'resistance/negative velocity' formula in a retroactive way. That is, you found what the 'resistance' needed to be in order to solve the mystery, and then based a formula around it.

It's creative, but it's not science.

It’s reflect not only the writing on the wall but the also the writing on the sky.

Is it science to determinate that because 7 to 8 planets orbits seems to be stable, then billion of stars and planet MUST also be so - and at a such weak foundation determinate that resistance against motion only MUST apply for acceleration ?

And is it science that even though main hint shows something is terrible wrong, - do you think we shall we just close our eyes and pretend that everything is all right. Come on man. - the sky is laughing at you, can’t you hear it?

The most silly thing is that all of Bjarne's equations and hypotheses rest on the claim that there is a resistance to motion in space. Bjarne maintains that an object cannot keep moving at constant speed without energy being fed to it, even if it is in an otherwise frictionless environment (like space). This is such a blatant contradiction to verified physics that it defies imagination.

If Bjarne was right in this, space probes wouldn't work
And they doesn’t
Pioneer 10 and 11 is too slow.
Pioneer 10 have lost 500.000.000 meter.

gyro compasses wouldn't work, particle accelerators wouldn't work, comets wouldn't exist, height energy interstellar particles wouldn't exist, etc, etc.
It’s a weak deceleration comrade, difficult to measure.
So weak that the metro is still working comrade.

Io non ho capito! He showed that you made a mistake

Cut & Paste
The essence of the exact same equation was quote:

In Danish, and excacly Troesl / FOB own words.
Hvis Bjarne havde ret skulle vi med andre ord se alle planeter søge mod samme afstand fra Solen.

Google Translation
If Bjarne was right we should, in other words to see all planets move to the same distance from the Sun. We do not!

This is what Troels ”equation”” above “should” reveal, told with his own word.

Such interpretation is manipulation.

-------------------

Capito hoy amigo ?
 
However, it seems Bjarne really believes in his stuff. Unless he is lying on the Danish forum, he is planning to rent a precision gravimeter (with an operator), and make measurements on every floor of a 30 story building in Copenhagen. He expects that this will prove his claim that gravity does not cancel out internally. He is not preparing any test protocol, as he says the result will be obvious if only the measurements are taken on a calm day! .. Its true!

Hans
 
-------------------
The essence of the exact same equation was quote:

In Danish, and excacly Troesl / FOB own words.
Hvis Bjarne havde ret skulle vi med andre ord se alle planeter søge mod samme afstand fra Solen.

Google Translation
If Bjarne was right we should, in other words to see all planets move to the same distance from the Sun. We do not!

This is what Troels ”equation”” above “should” reveal, told with his own word.
Sensation_of_physics did exactly what you stated was correct.

He put "space wind" and "kinetic resistance" equal. He did not do the arithemetic for the planets and get it wrong (as you did in your web page). He took
  1. Your equation for "space wind".
  2. Your equation for "kinetic resistance".
  3. And placed them equal as you stated they have to be.
These are not his equations they are your equations - the equations that you state are equal. The result is:
Bjarnes Claim is now that the above equlity holds exactly for each planet distance, r, in the solar system and that a slight discrepancy would mean that said planet is in an unstable orbit.

But a little more Algebra reveals that the equation can have at most one exact solution for r - it may even have none. All comes down to the constant Q, which Bjarne seems to have pulled out from one of the nether orifices of his body.

But if there is only one point where the equlity holds exactly then all planets not at this exact distance should be in unstable orbits!
ETA:
f you actually read and understood SOP's post then you could probably find the same mistake in that conclusion that I think is there. Can you?

Also what is the acceleration that converts your dimensionless "kinetic resistance" that is just a number into an acceleration that has units of m per second squared?
Without this your entire idea is totally wrong. No "manipulation" of equations is needed. Just the knowledge of a high school science student.
If it is 1 m/s^2 then why?
 
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Cut & Paste
The essence of the exact same equation was quote:

In Danish, and excacly Troesl / FOB own words.
Hvis Bjarne havde ret skulle vi med andre ord se alle planeter søge mod samme afstand fra Solen.

Google Translation
If Bjarne was right we should, in other words to see all planets move to the same distance from the Sun. We do not!

This is what Troels ”equation”” above “should” reveal, told with his own word.

Such interpretation is manipulation.
Yes Troels/SOP has shown that according to your equations, all planets should move to the same orbit around the Sun. They do not, so you must have made some major mistakes. Where is the manipulation?

Just repeating your claim will not make it more true.
 
4.jpg


Now values and text is corrected.
BUT still this is a rough picture
Hope everybody is happy :blush: and back on the track.

Before we can reach a clear and exact picture we must have super advance software.
It make no sense to refine the data further now, because this will anyway not be give a excact picture. As you can see the distance to Venus is probably “very” wrong. AND I DON’T CARE.

But soon a lot of people from the dark matter sect will properly be unemployed. They can do it.
I hate such work. Live is too short to that

The site is updated...

* * * * * * * * * * * *

He put "space wind" and "kinetic resistance" equal.
But his interpretation of that was at least an exaggeration and since it took him so long to get that point probably : manipulation

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Yes Troels/SOP has shown that according to your equations, all planets should move to the same orbit around the Sun. They do not, so you must have made some major mistakes
In no way.
If you for example would remove the Earth - you would disturb the KE of all the planets, and all planets would relocate.

EDIT
The distance to all the planets is determinated due to that also the planets transmit KE to each other.
If you would move the Earth towards Venus, all the outer planets would follow.
And so soon you remove that force agian, - the planets would be thrown back to the present orbits.



* * * * * * * * * * * *

Also what is the acceleration that converts your dimensionless "kinetic resistance" that is just a number into an acceleration that has units of m per second squared?
Without this your entire idea is totally wrong. No "manipulation" of equations is needed. Just the knowledge of a high school science student.
If it is 1 m/s^2 then why?

If my calculation is wrong then you are VERY welcome to let you high school science student show the correct deceleration comrade.

Can you do that, so do it...
 
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http://www.science27.com/forum/4.jpg
Now values and text is corrected.

Still some of mistakes:
  1. You compare resistance in m/s^2 (an acceleration) to space wind in Newton (a force).
  2. You need to change the text to:
    "Now we can compare the accelerations due to resistance and space wind and see that they do not equalize - they are close".
"equalize" = become equal. It is obvious from the calculation that your rough picture values are not equal.

In no way.
If you for example would remove the Earth - you would disturb the KE of all the planets, and all planets would relocate.
That is right but the KE os the Earth would not be trabsmitted to the other planets.

If my calculation is wrong then you are VERY welcome to let you high school science student show the correct deceleration comrade.

Can you do that, so do it...
I already did and you updated your web page to show that resistance and space wind are not equal.

The high school student would look at (1-y) and see that there are no units beacuse it divides v by c and the rest is numbers.
The high school student would look at your values and see that there are units.
They would immediately know that there is something missing from your equation. Only an pre-high school student would think that an equation that has no units of measurement can produce numbers that have units of measurement.


So lets double check what you are doing
  • What is the actual equation that you use to calculate resistance?
If you are using (1-y) then you are doing something quite idiotic.
 
Now values and text is corrected.
BUT still this is a rough picture
Hope everybody is happy :blush: and back on the track.
According to you newest calculations, all the inner planets, and Earth, Mars and Jupiter are on the way outwards. Are you sure you should not do the calculations one more time?

But his interpretation of that was at least an exaggeration and since it took him so long to get that point probably : manipulation
What do you mean by that? In the very first post a long time ago, he came to this conclusion, and there are not so many ways you can interpret the fact that there is only one stable orbit in the Solar system according to your equations: All planets must migrate to that orbit!

If you for example would remove the Earth - you would disturb the KE of all the planets, and all planets would relocate.
Who are talking about removing the Earth??

EDIT
The distance to all the planets is determinated due to that also the planets transmit KE to each other.
If you would move the Earth towards Venus, all the outer planets would follow.
And so soon you remove that force agian, - the planets would be thrown back to the present orbits.
Nobody are doubting that if you move planets around you will get weird results. What is the point?
 
You compare resistance in m/s^2 (an acceleration) to space wind in Newton (a force).
No before both values was calculated in Newton.
Now we can compare the accelerations due to resistance and space wind and see that they do not equalize - they are close".
Done > Now we can compare the forces due to resistance and space wind with each other, and see that the two "forces" almost equalizes.

The high school student would look at (1-y) and see that there are no units beacuse it divides v by c and the rest is numbers.
The high school student would look at your values and see that there are units.
They would immediately know that there is something missing from your equation. Only an pre-high school student would think that an equation that has no units of measurement can produce numbers that have units of measurement.
So lets double check what you are doing
What is the actual equation that you use to calculate resistance?
If you are using (1-y) then you are doing something quite idiotic.


No I do not agree to that.

1.) The basic of the equation is resistance

2.) Secondary consequences are gradually mass and KE increase. But this are consequences due to resistance against motion.

3.) The values you enters in the equation is : velocity, and this is also the basic what must “come out”.

4.) You can rather put it the other way around and ask what has gradually KE and M to do with deceleration / resistance, and why are these values proportional with resistance against motion ?

Notice the resulyt is a "transformation factor" that propotional MUST reflect both - KE + M + (minus) v.

Also try to undertand what really happens.
What happens when you put matter into motion?
What you really are doing is that you put elementary particles into motion. What would happen when you would through a tornado through space let’s sat with 10.000 km/h ?
It would spin like a football and suck more air right ?

It’s the same that happens with the elementary particles if speed increases, - we say the inner KE increases. Translated to the "human mind" it means that the small tornadoes (particles) sucks (contracts) more space = proportional more KE and proportional more M because M is contracted space. - (Also this phenomana is really a broad hint to understand the nature of gravity.)
This all happens because of ”negative velocity” (or resistances) against motion // deceleration. It's a closed process. You really do not get velocity out, but racther it's allready inside the process. That why I used the expression "neative velocity".

So te deceleration ARE the transformation factor (1-y) – ( and it do remember what it really is = deceleration // m/s^2) .

5.)
If you do not agree let the let the math genius crack the fact that you also must have deceleration. And should I be arong telle me the correct value ???

According to you newest calculations, all the inner planets, and Earth, Mars and Jupiter are on the way outwards. Are you sure you should not do the calculations one more time?

A very cold winter day, when I do not know what to do, yes MAYBE.

1.)As I wrote it makes really no sence because we do first need to test the “centrifugal force” – A such test can take decades. It's not everyday we launch space probes. On the other hand it can happen fast if e.g: NASA want especially to sent out probes only to test this.
2.)Regarding Jupiter. KE is also used to maintain the resistances against rotation, to transmit KE to the many moons, and the orbit centricity is different from planet to planet. – And my data is only rough.
3.)I think before anyone want to start to figure all these complications we need a clearer picture e.g: measurement in space, and here is the space “compass” (triangulating device from DTU) a invaluable step forward, that certainly will change our understanding of the two unknown forces.
 
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No I do not agree to that.
3.) The values you enters in the equation is : velocity, and this is also the basic what must “come out”.
I take it that you are using (1-y). This makes all of the numbers in your table wrong since (1-y) has no units and the numbers do.

This is where you make your worst mistake.
The units of the an equation depends on the units of the variables in the equation (dimensional analysis has been around for 200 years).
An equation does not magically produce numbers with certain units just because you want it to.
An equation produces numbers with the units that it wants.

Another mistake is obvious in your post. velocity is not acceleration . Your resistance is an acceleration. According to you (1-y) must produce an acceleration. But it does not!

First asked 23 October 2009:
Here is an equation: x = v/c
Speed goes into v. Speed is measured in m/s.
c is the speed of light. c is measured in m/s.

Bjarne: What are the units of x?

Here is an equation: y = v*c
Bjarne: What are the units of y?

Here is an equation: z = c*c
Bjarne: What are the units of z?

In the first example a high school student will see that the units cancel out and you get a number without units.
That high school student would look at (1-y) and see that there are no units because it divides v by c and the rest is numbers.
That high school student would look at your values and see that there are units.
They would immediately know that there is something missing from your equation. Only an primary school student would think that an equation that has no units of measurement can produce numbers that have units of measurement.

I can fix this for you by doing what you do - introduce an arbitrary number. My equation for resistance is:
R = g*(1-y)
where g is the acceleration due to gravity at the surface of the planet.
​
This has the advantage over your equation that it actually produces acceleration.
 
An equation does not magically produce numbers

You are blinding you self

Notice math is a combination of different values e.g; distance * velocity = m/s

But when it comes to relativity you do not have independent values.

See it that way:

You live at 10th floor. Times runs faster.
But seen from a mathematically point of view: what does higher altitude (meter) have to do with time dilation (seconds)? – The answer is nothing? (In the same way higher altitude also does not mean that you have a higher income, or sleep better etc..)

So you have only one option, to accept that higher altitude is connected with time. It’s not two independently values of the same (united) reality. You can not separate these values mathematically, because of altitude and time is always connected. This is magic, - not math. > If you change altitude you change time, and that’s it.

In the exactly same way you must accept that KE + Mass are connected, and so is velocity.
KE – M – and V are always a unity. – Its what the world is made of. You can not separate it.
(1-y) is only a (innocent) factor that just shows the direct proportional between one and the same unity that you can not separate.

Its not math like you are used to. When you drive in you car distance is not inseparable connected to time. You can decide. But when it comes to relativity it’s a completely different world.

Its reality, - its magic. – BUT it’s NOT fragmentally math.

As I wrote: do not deny that resistance / deceleration causes changing regarding KE + M .
If you want to show that the transformation factor, (of some unknown reasons) not also is direct proportional to the "negative velocity", you must show it.
 
Bjarne, why do you waste your time with these fools? There's the Nobel committee, for example. Just think, when they hear your theories, it won't be very long before you can denounce all your detractors from the podium in Stockholm!
 

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