why is it that my accusation is of a whole general group..while yours is personal?
The Truthers Prepare For President Obama....
- Thread starter dudalb
- Start date
why is it that my accusation is of a whole general group..while yours is personal?
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
He does'nt have to beg. That the Truther Movement reeks of Anti Semitism has been proven time and time again.
No,not every Truther is a Anti Semite, but those who are not have shown no
desire whatsoever to kick the Anti Semites out.
The truthers must've listened.
~Alex Jones
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hb71BAWues
Don't even get me started on Prothink, Jeff Rense, Eric Hufschmid, the American Free Press......
Walter Ego
Illuminator
Tarpley was shilling the new party line on the Alex Jones show recently. It seems Obama is the NWO's "New Horse" who will “legitimize” new false flag attacks (mostly overseas) which will get us into new foreign wars. Using McCain for this task would be “hopeless” because he’s too much linked in the public mind to the discredited George Bush and the neo-cons…. Or something like that. You can hear it yourself on the video.
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It would be as dishonest and crudely propagandistic as your accusation is were I to claim that one loveably eccentric poster on JREF represented the entire 911'sTrue Movement.
This is naive. It's true that, compared to other democracies, the US elected government tends to behave like a duopoly with 2 wings. Chomsky describes the D's and R's as two wings of the business party. Some paleo-conservatives and libertarians describe the D's and R's as two wings of the war party.
However you describe it, there are differences between the two wings. I recommend Chomsky's recent interview on therealnews.com, where he urged people to vote for the lesser of two evils. Although he didn't get into it, I'm sure he's not opposed to developing third parties. But you can't get from here to there, all at once. I'd rate the chances of any current third party presidential candidate to be near zero, so a 'lesser of two evils' strategy makes sense.
A rise to power at the state level and in Congress seems a necessary pre-requisite before any success at the Presidential level, save, perhaps, the appearance of another independently wealthy candidate with strong populist appeal, like Ross Perot.
IMO, a game theory analysis would show that taking over the D and R party by populist groups is just plain easier than getting a third party going. Fortunately, pdamerica.org is trying to do exactly that, for the Democrats. Thankfully, also, Ron Paul's followers are trying to have a lasting influence on American politics, after having faced up to the fact that Paul will not be the next President of the US.
There's also the 1,000 pound elephant (or two) in the room of the unelected beauracracy, which 'naturally' demonstrates inertia against changes by elected officials who come and go. This is certainly not unique to the US. What is unique to the US is the dominance of the military within this sector of government. See Chalmers Johnson's books and interviews for a good account.
Believing in conspiracies - the most natural way to get things done, when you need to keep your agenda secret, or at least lie about it incessantly even if unconvincingly to obscure your real intentions to the masses, but still can't go it alone - doesn't mean one has to believe in monolithic conspiracies. Absent some sort of dictatorship, that is hardly natural. I used to work in a 7 man company, and the politics even in such a small organization could be infuriating. It's quite natural for humans to follow their herds. It's also quite natural for those leading the herd to squabble amongst themselves, as well as those not leading the herd to squabble amongst themselves, and shift allegiances. The evidence for the elite class "squabbling" in the US is ubiquitous. This in no way contradicts the notion that some elite agendas are successfully kept out of the public view for long periods of time. By 'elite agendas', i'm implying that said agendas are at odds with popular desires. Hence, I think it makes sense to call these "conspiracies". Chomsky doesn't like that word, and calls this "planning". (And indeed, in cases where the specifics are accessible to the public, but never the less unknown by the public, "conspiracy" is not a particularly good word, even if "planning" doesn't capture the inherent deception, either.)
The "deep politics" described by Peter Dale Scott doubtless exists (though we can't point to such clear evidence as the exemplary car crash in Turkey that he often cites), but ascribing every undemocratic scheme by our government to a deep political structure seems silly. If the deep political structure were so all-powerful, why would we have ubiquitous evidence of elite squabbling? One would have to assume that it's just for show, which is the sort of CT that I would find "improbably vast". Also, I don't think there are that many good actors and actresses amongst us.
BTW, the absence of elite squabbling re 911 suggests to me that this was, indeed, a function of a deep political structure. I think the anthrax to Democrats who might have held up passage of the so-called Patriot Act made clear to any member of the elite class who might have been tempted to squabble, that it might be in their best interests not to. Implicit death threats are quite effective at focusing one's mind, don't you think?
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Metamars, thanks for your comment. To my mind, recent financial events have demonstrated clearly who has political control in the US. Both parties rolled over and sanctioned the biggest (?) robbery from ordinary citizens in history. The developing economic Depression is beyond party political control.
Some analysts * believe that the financial bubble and inevitable, ensuing collapse to be a deliberately engineered demolition of the no longer viable, US oil-based economy. It has certainly allowed a monumental transfer of wealth upwards and may be have been judged to be a necessary adjustment to declining energy supplies.
* e.g.: http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com/
(I'd recommend Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon, The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" if you haven't already read it.)
As for elite squabbling, I like the sport analogy. Teams compete vigourously to get to the top but, if the sport itself is threatened, they will quickly unite as one force.
It interesting that Osama bin Laden, when denying involvement in the attacks, pointed at a government within the US government as the likely place to find the 911 perpetrators.
Some analysts * believe that the financial bubble and inevitable, ensuing collapse to be a deliberately engineered demolition of the no longer viable, US oil-based economy. It has certainly allowed a monumental transfer of wealth upwards and may be have been judged to be a necessary adjustment to declining energy supplies.
* e.g.: http://www.mikeruppert.blogspot.com/
(I'd recommend Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon, The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" if you haven't already read it.)
As for elite squabbling, I like the sport analogy. Teams compete vigourously to get to the top but, if the sport itself is threatened, they will quickly unite as one force.
It interesting that Osama bin Laden, when denying involvement in the attacks, pointed at a government within the US government as the likely place to find the 911 perpetrators.
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Not as interesting as the complete disregard for all the admissions by UBL and other AQ leaders for 911 by truther bots.
Dishonesty is the best policy eh?
Dr Adequate
Banned
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That would be like begging bears to **** in the woods.
Here's a little charmer commenting on PrisonPlanet:
Why is a middle eastern even in the AMERICAN goverment,nun the less a presidential hopefull.The goverment is to blame for 9/11 and everything else wrong in this country and us real AMERICANS have to take it in the wazzu everyday and cant do nothing about it.We get flooded with these foriegners coming over starting religouse contriversy and refusing to live the AMERICAN way,getiing everything handed to them and then they bitch about us,they need to go back where they came from and shut up.
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jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Ok, I'm a Canadian but correct me if I am wrong, but does not a person running for a political post have to at least be a naturalized citizen and can one easily get a gov't job with only a green card?
Even I know that one must be born in the USA in order to run for president and that Obama was and so was his mother. The author apparently wants to push it back and require whole generations of a family to be born in the uSA in order to qualify for that job.
Wow, logical fallacy upon logical fallacy upon bad grammer.
Assuming he means Obama, his rant seems to go from Obama to a general case, what religious controvesy has Obama created and what was 'handed' to him?
Can I hope that at least a large percentage of 'truthers' graduated high school or is this typical of the members of that group?
Strangely, bin Laden appears to have both denied and claimed responsibility for 911. However, it was only when he was denying it that he mentioned a government within the government of the US.
How does the 911'sTrue movement go about calculating its percentages?
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Well if it's anything like other truther math, first they head to Wall Street and take pictures of janitors and stock brokers to determine which haircuts are more likely to be found on high school graduates. Then they take pictures of a few truther events and compare the haircuts. Then they perform their special haircut analysis, complete with red circles and MS Paint arrows.
Once the haircut analysis is complete, they'll then analyze the results. They'll count the number of people with stockbroker haircuts, then develop a 'false stockbroker' percentage by dividing the number of stockbrokers in their wall street pictures by the number of red ties they count. They'll then subtract the false stockbroker percentage from the janitor haircut count. They'll assume no false janitors because everyone knows janitors are always honest, except when they see airplanes. Finally, they'll take the square root of both sides, drop a digit when doing the math because they hit a 6 instead of a 5 on their calculator.
They will then stand behind this analysis of their math and scream at anyone who claims there's a different percentage, especially if they do something like count high school diplomas (which are issued by the government, and therefore obviously faked).
defaultdotxbe
Drunken Shikigami
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eromitlab
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Good grief. Ironic that they both talk about "Kool-Aid drinkers for Obama". Guess they're jealous that not enough people are drinking what's in their pitcher.
Didn't hear any mention of the Obamas being "CFR". I've heard that quite a bit from anti-Obama types, one of the few straws they'll grasp at to paint Obama as a globalist puppet.
Both parties rolled over, consistent with what we've seen over the last few years. But they're still at odds with each other, even on a personal level, compared to Congress members of 30 years ago. Not a confirmatory fact, if one is positing a monolithic conspiracy.
The way I think of it is that both parties are whores, and their clientele overlaps. But they're still not the same whore, and, in fact, for the most part view the other whore as competition. It shouldn't surprise us if both parties often vote the same way. How differently does one whore act, as compared to another?
Ruppert's a smart guy, and very principled, but he makes mistakes. I think he tries too hard to make the facts fit his theories.
Also, he basically doesn't know what he's talking about when he dismisses exotic energy sources. I'm intending to start a thread, contextualizing 911 as (plausibly) a skirmish in an ongoing ruthless manipulation and control of energy production. For now, I'll quote myself:
I should have also noted what Mr. Aitken told me, viz., "I can't just disappear." Meaning, he couldn't just be easily murdered. (IMO, he was obviously in denial.)
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
What about the other AQ leaders who admit it and have never denied it?
He denied it once and has admitted it many times subsequently. That should tell you something unfortunately it won't.
Bin Laden denied it more than once. That you believe otherwise should, perhaps, tell you something!
However,on this thread, I was sayin no more than that it is interesting that, when he denied involvement, he pointed to a government within a government in the US as a likely place to find the perpetrators.
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
What about the other AQ leaders or are you just handwaving them? What about the AQ leaders being annoyed with CT pushers about 911?
UBL admitted it more times than he denied it, like it or not. Also more recently. Are you saying Al Jazeera statements from Bin Laden are considered to be real?
Care to source the bolded above because that is not what I saw in the interview he gave.
UBL said:
UBL said:
I predict the semantic game will continue onward from this point.