The Oklahoma City Bombing Coverup

conspiracybeliever said:
That is preposterous. Most of you guys will actually go and look for mostly irrelevent dirt on someone before you even address their assertions. You got a few badasses here, I will definitely give you that. Chipmunk comes to mind. But to say "oh, we address facts here, not people" is laughable at best.

And considering there were people yelling all this stuff at Clinton's Justice Department within days of the bombing with him ignoring it and blaming it on his "vast right wing conspiracy", I'd say there might be something to Partin's assessment.
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So, do you have any facts to bring to the table aside from the OP?
 
Hey, I never said I addressed facts, not people :D

The point would be, just because the guy is retired airforce doesn't make his opinion on a photo any better then, say, manny's or my own. Would you take his opinion seriously if the caption said "Bob Dobbs, retired Fry Cook"?
 
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conspiracybeliever said:
That is preposterous. Most of you guys will actually go and look for mostly irrelevent dirt on someone before you even address their assertions. You got a few badasses here, I will definitely give you that. Chipmunk comes to mind. But to say "oh, we address facts here, not people" is laughable at best.

And considering there were people yelling all this stuff at Clinton's Justice Department within days of the bombing with him ignoring it and blaming it on his "vast right wing conspiracy", I'd say there might be something to Partin's assessment.
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AHEM:

Some of that data is incorrect, Timothy McVeigh's Ryder Truck (according to the Crime Library) carried a 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb, not 2,000LB. As we all hopefully know, doubling the amount of explosive increases exponentially the size of the blast. A 4,000LB ammonium nitrate bomb would have roughly 8x the explosive power of the 2,000LB blast.

I also found a site on the University of Wisconsin bombing, the van carrying the 2,000lb was not flush with the building,but parked in a delivery are. The picture that has been providecis the rebuilt portion of the University building, damaged bricks that were structurally sound were left in place.the damage to the building was mainly from concussion and fire.
 
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conspiracybeliever said:
That is preposterous. Most of you guys will actually go and look for mostly irrelevent dirt on someone before you even address their assertions. You got a few badasses here, I will definitely give you that. Chipmunk comes to mind. But to say "oh, we address facts here, not people" is laughable at best.

And considering there were people yelling all this stuff at Clinton's Justice Department within days of the bombing with him ignoring it and blaming it on his "vast right wing conspiracy", I'd say there might be something to Partin's assessment.
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Dodge and weave, little boy. Do anything you can to try and avoid the points that were brought up.

You are a little scampering coward.
 
conspiracybeliever said:
That is preposterous. Most of you guys will actually go and look for mostly irrelevent dirt on someone before you even address their assertions. You got a few badasses here, I will definitely give you that. Chipmunk comes to mind. But to say "oh, we address facts here, not people" is laughable at best.

And considering there were people yelling all this stuff at Clinton's Justice Department within days of the bombing with him ignoring it and blaming it on his "vast right wing conspiracy", I'd say there might be something to Partin's assessment.
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I'm curious what forum he's been reading.
 
J. Arthur Hastur said:
AHEM:

Some of that data is incorrect.....
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Yes, but there was some accurate data that seems to be either incriminating or very coincidental, and not often talked about, including:

1) There were ongoing and independent FBI and ATF investigations occurring in that area, and at that time, focused on the same "right-wing" groups that McVeigh was closely associated with, and

2) None of the 19 or so ATF personnel were in their office in the Murray Building at the time of the attack.
 
Huntster said:
Yes, but there was some accurate data that seems to be either incriminating or very coincidental, and not often talked about, including:

1) There were ongoing and independent FBI and ATF investigations occurring in that area, and at that time, focused on the same "right-wing" groups that McVeigh was closely associated with, and

2) None of the 19 or so ATF personnel were in their office in the Murray Building at the time of the attack.
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Well, I obviously couldn't address those, they weren't mentioned in the original post.

I was addressing the bomb data and the apparent damage to the building.
 
Dodge and weave, little boy. Do anything you can to try and avoid the points that were brought up.

You are a little scampering coward.
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You're a ignorant loser, kookbreaker. I tried to be nice.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6.
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The following entries from the Oklahoma Highway Patrol’s radio dispatch logs:

– 10:29 a.m. "There is another bomb on the south side of the bldg. Need to get away as far as possible.... Evacuate the area of the bldg immediately, evacuate the S. side of the bldg immediately."

– 10:33 a.m. "Adv CP [Advise Command Post] we poss [possibly] have another device." "If it is the one on the S. side we have already gb’d [grabbed] it." "Okay." "Did you have anything further beside the one on the S. side?" "Neg [negative]."

– 10:37 a.m. "OC Fire Dept. confirms they did find a second device in the bldg." "O.K." "Cont. [contact] all troopers and have them move all civilian personnel back 1 more block."

– 2:00 p.m. "Unable to contact ATF." "Keep tring [trying] they think they have found another device. Have one of there [sic] people contact HQ48 on the northside of the bld."

• A Forces Command, Fort McPherson, Georgia, log entry for April 19, 1995 at 11:57 a.m. which states: "Two more explosive devices were located vicinity the explosion site. Evidently intended for the rescuers."

• A DoD Atlantic Command memo from Norfolk, Virginia on April 20, 1995, which states: "A second bomb was disarmed, a third bomb was evacuated."

• A Federal Emergency Management Agency Situation Report for April 20, 1995 which reads: "A second and third bomb were located in the building. The second bomb was disarmed and the third bomb was evacuated."
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http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1998/vo14no15/vo14no15_bombs.htm
 
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Two years ago, the university I work for hired a demolition company to take down one of our old high-rise dormitories. 12-story, reinforced concrete structure. It took them two months of heavy-duty drilling, jack-hammering, and so forth to prep the building for demolition. Then they had to place the large number of charges and wire them ever so carefully together for maximal effect.

This would be a process that would be likely to attract attention in a working building, I'd imagine.
Has the conspiracy guy looked at the pics of the building that was blown up in the Middle East, the one that killed all the marines? Looked very similar to the federal building; another truck bomb.
 
Now that it has been brought to my attention, I will look into it. That still does not address the fact that the Murrah building bomb was twice the size of the University of Wisconsin bomb, or the fact the the picture in the original post shows the repaired building, with the structurally sound but damaged bricks intact.

The original post in this thread was erroneous on two points.
 
So, the conspirators were callous enough to kill over one hundred people including a bunch of children on that day but were nice enough to let the ATF people in on the conspiracy and let them know so they didn't show up for work or drop off their kids. ANd not one of those ATF personnel has ever come forward out of conscience or to claim the lucrative book deal that would no doubt come from blowing the lid off of the conspiracy. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

As for the Highway patrol logs, I would have to see them in context to comment. However, I have to point out that even if they are 'as advertised' that just because they THOUGHT there was a second or third bomb, in the confusion of the immediate moment, it doesn't mean they were correct.
 
The size of the OKC ANFO bomb is debatable. The govt. kept having to say it was bigger and bigger as people asked more and more questions.

That's the only pic of the Math building I can find. It's still standing. I find that significant.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
So, the conspirators were callous enough to kill over one hundred people including a bunch of children on that day but were nice enough to let the ATF people in on the conspiracy and let them know so they didn't show up for work or drop off their kids. ANd not one of those ATF personnel has ever come forward out of conscience or to claim the lucrative book deal that would no doubt come from blowing the lid off of the conspiracy. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

As for the Highway patrol logs, I would have to see them in context to comment. However, I have to point out that even if they are 'as advertised' that just because they THOUGHT there was a second or third bomb, in the confusion of the immediate moment, it doesn't mean they were correct.
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How does your asserion negate the Highway Patrol logs and DOD memos?
 
The show Seconds From Disaster on the National Geographic Channel did a show about the Murrah building. They found that the extensive damage was largely caused by the failure of the horizontal transfer beam which ran the full length of the building at about the second floor. The beam was meant to open up the first floor by bearing the weight of all the upper vertical beams and transfering their forces to the supports at each end of the transfer beam. The force of the explosion caused the transfer beam to roll back, which allowed all those upper vertical beams to collapse. As these vertical beams fell, they basically pulled the floors down with them.

[Edit] So when people look at all that damage and say "The bomb couldn't have caused all that", in effect they're right. The initial blast didn't cause all that destruction. All the bomb had to do was take out the transfer beam. The rest was left to gravity. If the vertical support beams had been allowed to go all the way to the ground instead of stopping at the transfer beam, perhaps the damage would not have been so severe.

Steve S.
 
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conspiracybeliever said:
The size of the OKC ANFO bomb is debatable. The govt. kept having to say it was bigger and bigger as people asked more and more questions.

That's the only pic of the Math building I can find. It's still standing. I find that significant.
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Not really. The bomb that hit the University of Wisconsin building was half the size of the Murrah building bomb. The van was parked approx. 20 feet away (as opposed to just around 8 ft for Mc Veigh's Ryder truck) in the picture you have it shows the buildind after it's been reconstructed and the concrete loading ramp removed (it was badly damaged by the bomb) and replaced by the gradient slope you see up to the building.

I have yet to find anything on ATF agents at the Murrah building, except on White Supremacy sites and CT site, I can find no actual credible news info one way or the other..............yet.
 
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