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Ed The Miracles Continue ...

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Don't change the subject, Emre.
Guys- don't let him do this.
Emre: you made this ridiculous claim about days,months and years. You can't just run away from it once you realise you're losing the argument. Acknowledge you were wrong, and then we can move on.

On the contrary, you've detected that I'm right.

That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.

And That's why you started begging me to change my testimony for the first time. Because your conscience is starting to disturb you. You are in need of an expression that will comfort you.

In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.
 
On the contrary, you've detected that I'm right.

Delusion.

That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum...

There are no "Christian missionaries" in this forum. But there are quite a few people who know enough about Isam, Arabic, and the Qur'an to tell that you don't know what you're talking about.

...panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.

And That's why you started begging me to change my testimony for the first time. Because your conscience is starting to disturb you. You are in need of an expression that will comfort you.

Delusional, and rather egotistical. Nobody here fits that description.

In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.

No. You don't read Arabic, do you? I schooled you in the Arabic idioms you're completely ignoring, and you can't answer them. So you pretend I never said them. If you had the skill to match the ego you've displayed in this post, you could tell me why my analysis of the Arabic is wrong. But you don't have it, so you can't. And because you can't, all you can manage to do is mindlessly recite the same factually incorrect statements over and over.

Address my actual arguments. Put up or shut up.
 
You can't just run away from it once you realise you're losing the argument. Acknowledge you were wrong, and then we can move on.

I doubt he'll ever acknowledge his error because he's claimed to be all but infallible. I don't have to point out how delusional that is, given his poor performance. But the bottom line for the calendar claims is the same as the top line, and it's that he obviously cannot do anything beyond repeating the claims over and over like a broken record. He doesn't have the knowledge to actually understand and argue them.

He asked us to look at the Arabic. We did, and discovered it didn't say at all what he claimed it did. Further, we find that he seems to be the one who knows the least about the Arabic. Hence he won't discuss it, presumably to avoid exposing his ignorance.

I'm just amazed that he seems to think everyone is falling for such clumsy, obvious bluster. But in any case, we won't get any cogent defense of the calender claims. It obviously isn't within his skill. He doesn't seem to know how to make an argument that extends beyond stating his claim and taking a bow.
 
That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.
Which Christian missionaries are you thinking of? I have no idea what religion posters in this forum have, but I suspect that rather many like me have no religion whatsoever. If you point out which users are Christian, then I can check if the Christian missionaries really panicked.

In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.
It is somewhat strange to see you repeat this claim after you have been shown pages that count all the occurrences of "day" with quotes, and where the number is anything but 365.

I am also puzzled why it would be a miracle even if there were 365 occurrences of "day". I can easily write a text with 365 occurrences of "day", and nobody would think it was miracle.

30 occurrences of the word "days" is also puzzling, because there are not 30 days in a year, and I am sure your god would know this if he existed. The lunar year that uses 30 days for a month is an approximation that is used only by religious people and other people incapable of doing the real calculations for a solar year.
 
On the contrary, you've detected that I'm right.

That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.

And That's why you started begging me to change my testimony for the first time. Because your conscience is starting to disturb you. You are in need of an expression that will comfort you.

In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.

Who are these "christian missionaries"? I cant seem to find any.

ETA: The ideas you are promoting are nonsense.
 
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Which Christian missionaries are you thinking of?

He's written previously in a way that suggests he doesn't know or respect the difference between atheists and Christians. He seems to think the only reason people would object to his masterful defense of Islam would be to promote and defend a competing religion. He doesn't grasp that many of us here oppose all religion, and that our criticism of his comes from that, not from a different devotion.

In his other thread he touts the superiority of the Qur'an over the Torah and the New Testament, apparently expecting his critics to defend those books. He doesn't get that the majority of his critics don't accept any of them as divine revelation. That said, there are still many of us who have a good working knowledge of the world's compendium of holy writ and can respond meaningfully to claims of historicity, provenance, and so forth. We can point out others' errors without professing a belief in those religions ourselves. It's a common paradox that people who approach a religion academically often know more facts about it than those who were brought up in it and just absorbed it osmotically.

It is somewhat strange to see you repeat this claim after you have been shown pages that count all the occurrences of "day" with quotes, and where the number is anything but 365.

Not so strange if you accept that he's just a cargo-cult evangelist and doesn't really understand either the claims he's making or his critics' lines of reasoning in response. His only engagement to the refutation has been a vague wave of the hands toward Arabic grammar, which he claims supports the hair-splitting taxonomy of which instances of "day" count, and which don't.

Unfortunately we called his bluff. We've come to understand that he doesn't actually read Arabic. He doesn't understand definite articles because Turkish doesn't have them. The idiom he's stumbling over is tied directly to the abstract notion of finiteness in linguistics. The speakers of languages that omit the definite article generally come late to these nuances when learning other languages. Here the nuance is important, because when the Arabic word for "day" is given the particular definiteness that comes from affixing the definite-article prefix, it acquires a wholly different meaning -- one for which some languages like ours have a completely different word. This is not generally true of nouns in Arabic, but it holds here. The Semitic construct of "day-with-definiteness" has a particular meaning, the idea that means exactly "today" in English. The difference in meaning in English between "day" and "today" is fully present in the Arabic, even though it's written as an idiom. Hence his desire to include al-yawm in the list as if it were just another ordinary reference to "day" is as wrong as it can possibly be.

Now it's unwise for him to try to debate in English when his command of English is so poor. He may be ignoring our responses simply because whatever translation method he's using isn't up to the task. But if he's trying to be a Qur'an scholar and a master evangelist of Islam, unfamiliarity with Arabic is a show-stopper. It doesn't matter what other languages he doesn't read, the inability to read and understand Arabic -- including all its idioms and colloquialisms -- is fatal to an expert understanding of the Qur'an. He told us to go look at the Arabic just trusting that we wouldn't be able to tell that it doesn't say what he says it says.

I am also puzzled why it would be a miracle even if there were 365 occurrences of "day".

We're still trying to figure this out. As near as I can tell, it's just another example of cargo-cult reasoning, although it's not particular to him. Other Muslims tout this as some kind of miracle for the Qur'an. It's as if any old curiosity is just assumed to be evidence of the divine irrespective of any actual probative value.

I drew the parallel to the so-called Bible Code, in which letters taken at different strides in the Masorah are said to reveal hidden, encoded truths. At least that is said to convey some hidden additional meaning, as opposed to being just a numerological curiosity. Incidentally that's a fun computer programming exercise: take a block of text, render strings from it composed of letters at different regular strides, then look for words and phrases in those modulo strings that are deemed unlikely to have arisen by chance. Then ascribe to them whatever significance bubbles up out of your biases. If you do this with the American Declaration of Independence, the word "penis" appears five times. That obviously expresses the Founding Fathers' wishes to establish a gender-oppressive patriarchy.

Armchair stylometry is fun!

30 occurrences of the word "days" is also puzzling, because there are not 30 days in a year, and I am sure your god would know this if he existed.

Yeah, the relationship between the words and the cardinal entities they're supposed to reveal is not consistent. Astronomically speaking, there's no harmonious relationship among the solar day, the lunar month, and the solar or sidereal year. And frankly, the Arabs knew this. It's not as if these words counts actually reveal some arcane knowledge about the natural world. But the relationship of "day" to year, "days" to month, and "month" to year -- i.e., playing fast and loose with both the constituents of each unit and the grammatical number -- is a clear sign of wishful contrivance. It's pure numerology. It makes up the rules so as to arrive at the desired "coincidence," not because the rules have intrinsic significance. It's like taking the number of verses in the new testament, dividing it by Michael Jackson's waist size, and arriving at the number of cubits of longitude for the pizza place where Hilary Clinton is supposed to have a kiddie sex dungeon.
 
On the contrary, you've detected that I'm right.
No, you have been quite regularly been shown wrong.

That's why the Christian missionaries in the forum panicked for the first time, and their voices began to vibrate.
Nope, no missionaries here. There may be Christians. We don't panic here. We haven't panicked for the first time either.

And That's why you started begging me to change my testimony for the first time. Because your conscience is starting to disturb you. You are in need of an expression that will comfort you.
We haven't begged. We are showing you that you are wrong.

In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.
We've already shown you that you are wrong. You keep going to the same website and trying to show us "da' mysteries" of the Koran.

Please provide proof of the following: there are Christian missionaries here, that "we" have panicked, that "we" have panicked for the first time, that "we" are "begging" you to change your "testimony".
 
30 occurrences of the word "days" is also puzzling, because there are not 30 days in a year, and I am sure your god would know this if he existed. The lunar year that uses 30 days for a month is an approximation that is used only by religious people and other people incapable of doing the real calculations for a solar year.
And why 30? There are more months with 31 days than 30.
 
In the Quran, the word "day" is 365 times, the word "days" is 30 times, and the word "month" repeats 12 times.

and;

“balance” (mizan) 23 times
transgression” (israf) 23 times


Prophet 80 times
Messenger 80 times

Angels 88 times repeat
Devil 88 times

Mother 117
Father 117


Forgive 234 (117×2)
Pay 117


Speak 12
Speech 12

Prophet 80
Information 80


A few 75
Appreciate 75


To warn 124
To frighten 124


To blow 20 (10×2)
Horn 10


Adam 25
Jesus 25


Evil 167
Many 167


Disease 24
Harm 24


To read 17
To seek refuge 17


Men of wisdom 16
Mad 16


Sun 33
Shadow 33
East and West 16+17=33
A light 33


To reproach 14
To condemn 14


Annoyance 13
Rejoice 13

Tree 26
Plant 26

Sow 14
Grow 14
Fruit 14

Sun (with all the derivatives) 33
The highest: sun’s angular diameter 33


Doomsday hour 48
Unseen 48


To know 29
To comprehend 29

Derivatives of Mercy 114(57X2)
Merciful 114(57X2)
Gracious 57

Mercy 79
Guide 79

Language 25
Advice 25

Sorcery 60
Discord 60

Dirtiness 10
Nastiness 10


Benefit 50
Corruption 50


World 115 times repeat
Hereafter 115 times
 
and;

“balance” (mizan) 23 times
transgression” (israf) 23 times


Prophet 80 times
Messenger 80 times

Angels 88 times repeat
Devil 88 times

Mother 117
Father 117


Forgive 234 (117×2)
Pay 117


Speak 12
Speech 12

Prophet 80
Information 80


A few 75
Appreciate 75


To warn 124
To frighten 124


To blow 20 (10×2)
Horn 10


Adam 25
Jesus 25


Evil 167
Many 167


Disease 24
Harm 24


To read 17
To seek refuge 17


Men of wisdom 16
Mad 16


Sun 33
Shadow 33
East and West 16+17=33
A light 33


To reproach 14
To condemn 14


Annoyance 13
Rejoice 13

Tree 26
Plant 26

Sow 14
Grow 14
Fruit 14

Sun (with all the derivatives) 33
The highest: sun’s angular diameter 33


Doomsday hour 48
Unseen 48


To know 29
To comprehend 29

Derivatives of Mercy 114(57X2)
Merciful 114(57X2)
Gracious 57

Mercy 79
Guide 79

Language 25
Advice 25

Sorcery 60
Discord 60

Dirtiness 10
Nastiness 10


Benefit 50
Corruption 50


World 115 times repeat
Hereafter 115 times

I’m not sure what you mean to be saying?
I can say:
I have 8 green onions
And 8 carrots in my fridge.
Who cares
 
Ummm...."The Islamic, Muslim, or Hijri calendar is a lunar calendar consisting of 12 lunar months in a year of 354 or 355 days. It is used to determine the proper days of ..."why would 365 matter at all?
 
Ummm...."The Islamic, Muslim, or Hijri calendar is a lunar calendar consisting of 12 lunar months in a year of 354 or 355 days. It is used to determine the proper days of ..."why would 365 matter at all?

Hijri is not Islamic.
 
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