The Freeman Movement and England

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I forget exactly where I got this particular piece of woo.
But the Biblical basis seems to go back to the First Covenant between God and Man i.e. Noah's Covenant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
This is why some of them refer to a difference between Melchizdekial judges and Levitical judges. Levitical judges are "statute" based to them (as their authority comes from a code of laws).

I can't believe I'm even typing this...
 
Pikachu said:
I forget exactly where I got this particular piece of woo.
But the Biblical basis seems to go back to the First Covenant between God and Man i.e. Noah's Covenant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
This is why some of them refer to a difference between Melchizdekial judges and Levitical judges. Levitical judges are "statute" based to them (as their authority comes from a code of laws).

I can't believe I'm even typing this...
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I'm going to guess they mumble a bit when they get to #7:


#7 Requirement to have just Laws: Set up a governing body of law (eg Courts)
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LightinDarkness said:
The Fmotlers seem to think that it is the very use of latin legal maxims that hold sway over the courts. Why they think that Roman era latin maxims stand alone in jurisprudence, and why they think that every other form of statue law requires consent EXCEPT their use of latin maxims which are themselves remnants of Roman statue law, intrigues me.
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Because they look legal and sound authoritative.

"I feel the copyright issues fall under de minimis" sounds a lot more authoritative than "I feel the copyright issues are too trivial for the court to consider them worth ruling against" . Ignoring the rest of roman law is most likely due to not knowing about it. Legal history is not something most people have a extensive background knowlage of. Certianly unless they had some reason to study it most people would miss much of what say Dickens was on about with Jarndyce and Jarndyce.
 
geni said:
Because they look legal and sound authoritative.

"I feel the copyright issues fall under de minimis" sounds a lot more authoritative than "I feel the copyright issues are too trivial for the court to consider them worth ruling against" . Ignoring the rest of roman law is most likely due to not knowing about it. Legal history is not something most people have a extensive background knowlage of. Certianly unless they had some reason to study it most people would miss much of what say Dickens was on about with Jarndyce and Jarndyce.
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Thats an astute observation - latin tends to lend the most prosaic of phrases 'gravitas' (I'm getting good at this :)).

I'd also suggest that roman maxims are pithy & easily understandable. The average Freeman lacks the intellect & patience to get to grips with statutory interpretation or plough through mounds of case law. Far easier to shock and amaze your gullible audience by throwing a legal fossil into the ring.
 
In the US, a number of Latin terms are still used in the legal system, but they are simple and easily understood, and are retained because they are easier to use then the English equivilent (habeus Corpus comes to mind as an example).
 
In the English criminal courts a lot of legal Latin still hangs around again because it's a handy shorthand : prima-facie; res gestae; res ipsae; mala-fides are all ones I've used within the last couple of weeks.
Even the odd bit of Norman French (lovely fellow Norman) - voir dire for instance.
 
Pikachu said:
In the English criminal courts a lot of legal Latin still hangs around again because it's a handy shorthand : prima-facie; res gestae; res ipsae; mala-fides are all ones I've used within the last couple of weeks.
Even the odd bit of Norman French (lovely fellow Norman) - voir dire for instance.
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I remember Volenti fit injura & Res ipso loquitor from when I was studying Torts
 
I do get the idea of legal latin as a useful shorthand, but I cannot help thinking of the "A fish in your pocket" from the dish-world. :D
 
The new edition of Jowitt's Dictionary of English Law (published 25th May 2010) still has plenty of Latin in it. From page 1 alone:

  • A coelo usque ad centrum
  • A communi observantia non est recedendum
  • A fortiori
  • A mensa et thoro
  • A non posse ad non esse sequitur argumentum necessarie negative, licet non affirmative
  • A posteriori
  • A priori
 
There's craploads of latin still in regular use in international law. Like:

- jus cogens
- jus in bello
- opinio juris
- pacta sunt servanda
- nemo dat quod non habet

...and so on. The list is long and totally useless. (I hate international law).
 
Pikachu said:
In the English criminal courts a lot of legal Latin still hangs around again because it's a handy shorthand : prima-facie; res gestae; res ipsae; mala-fides are all ones I've used within the last couple of weeks.
Even the odd bit of Norman French (lovely fellow Norman) - voir dire for instance.
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I suppose we should be grateful that the FOTLers aren't using Law French. Mind you, they knew how to deal with people who disputed the court's authority in those days:
fuit assault per prisoner la condemne pur felony que puis son condemnation ject un Brickbat a le dit Justice que narrowly mist, & pur ceo immediately fuit Indictment drawn per Noy envers le Prisoner, & son dexter manus ampute & fix al Gibbet, sur que luy mesme immediatement hange in presence de Court.
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See Anon (1631) 2 Dyer 188b.
 
I am still disappointed that the Court won't use peine fort et dure to secure pleas from the Freemen. Our courts have lovely big heavy doors which would be ideal...
Actually when I hear them rabbiting on I'd prefer they were just "mute of malice".
 
Pikachu said:
I am still disappointed that the Court won't use peine fort et dure to secure pleas from the Freemen. Our courts have lovely big heavy doors which would be ideal...
Actually when I hear them rabbiting on I'd prefer they were just "mute of malice".
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Very interesting ideas. :D

I am glad to see that any freeman claims of being subject to only older legal principles can be answered in style. :D
 
Toke said:
I do get the idea of legal latin as a useful shorthand, but I cannot help thinking of the "A fish in your pocket" from the dish-world. :D
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How about a plea of vis-ne faciem capite repletam? Used to great effect in "The Wee Free Men".
 
Mojo said:
The new edition of Jowitt's Dictionary of English Law (published 25th May 2010) still has plenty of Latin in it. From page 1 alone:

  • A coelo usque ad centrum
  • A communi observantia non est recedendum
  • A fortiori
  • A mensa et thoro
  • A non posse ad non esse sequitur argumentum necessarie negative, licet non affirmative
  • A posteriori
  • A priori
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when discussing FMOTL you should really consult Blacks (irrespective of where you live & obviously watch the Matrix regularly
 
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