The Freeman Movement and England

Status
Not open for further replies.
cwalner said:
...
On a side note, I have noticed FOTL (or similar) movements so far in the US, UK, Canada, and Australia. One thing they all have in common is foundations in English common law.

Has anybody seen anything similar in continental Europe, Asia or South America (basically anywhere that has roots in a different legal system)?
Click to expand...

Czech Republic - AFAIK It doesn't exist here and didn't notice it elsewhere.
There is big probabilty that history of law plays big role.
 
Klimax said:
Czech Republic - AFAIK It doesn't exist here and didn't notice it elsewhere.
There is big probabilty that history of law plays big role.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what "history of law" means in this context, but I suspect that recent experiences under the Soviet boot might have something to do with it, too. It's hard for someone to be taken seriously about the police state created by the requirement to have a driver's license and to pay your bills when the hearer has experienced a real police state.

To anyone who still remembers Khrushchev, Especially's drivel :

"Slaves are those who must apply for their own freedom to be granted to them by their masters. Must apply for permits to do what is already lawful. And must conform with each and every statute created by bogus parliaments and a bogus legal system. These statutes even being falsely called 'laws'. Since a free man knows what is lawful requires no permit, licence or grant from anyone - because he is acting lawfully, within the law. "

... sounds like a whiny teenager wondering why he needs his parent's permission to borrow the car.
 
drkitten said:
I'm not sure what "history of law" means in this context, but I suspect that recent experiences under the Soviet boot might have something to do with it, too. It's hard for someone to be taken seriously about the police state created by the requirement to have a driver's license and to pay your bills when the hearer has experienced a real police state.
Click to expand...

While that may be part of it, I still think a lot of it has to do with falacious understanding of common law, which seems to be an English creation exported to the full UK, commonwealth, and former colonies. While your point may apply to Germany (very famous police state, but not quite recent enough to be remembered directly by most people still alive today) it would not explain why such a movement has no apparant parallel in France, Netherlands, or Mexico as examples (I was thinking of listing Spain, but then I remembered that they actually had a fascist dictatorship in living memory)

If someone has evidence of such parallels please post them here.
 
ArmillarySphere said:
There's a Swedish word "Rättshaverist" (german Rechtshaber), which seems singularly appropriate to these people.

I'll do a quick translation
Click to expand...

FMOTL seem to be a sub-set of these people. I am very familiar with these in the Road Traffic court - in fact I have one at the minute. Ever since he was photographed speeding he has inundated the police the Courts and us with lengthy, repetitive screeds demanding everything under the sun be provided to him instantly. When it isn't he makes an official complaint. My boss has now directed that he only be communicated with by recorded delivery letter.
His latest to me is a rehash of requests that have already been refused by us and the police. They are totally irrelevant to the question of whether he was speeding.
I am kept going by visions of his face when he's convicted and gets my costs bill...

The best one of these I was ever involved with involved an elderly man who was determined to prove he hadn't gone through a red light. He'd done quite well cross-examining the police witnesses, brought up some good technical questions. He'd worked for months on this and made a total nuisance of himself. He had photographs; reports; plans - the lot. Then he called his wife who'd been his passenger and led her through the first part of her evidence as if he'd been a QC. Got her up to the point where the car approached the junction.
"And what happened next?"















"There was a flash and you shouted "F*** I've just gone through a red light!"

The Court collapsed as did his case .( We decided afterwards that she must have been plotting this for months as he bored her to death going on about this case)
 
Pikachu said:
"There was a flash and you shouted "F*** I've just gone through a red light!"

The Court collapsed as did his case .( We decided afterwards that she must have been plotting this for months as he bored her to death going on about this case)
Click to expand...



At least we know she's a fan of "A fish Called Wanda".


Wanda: I looked at the clock... because I was saying to myself... It's five to seven, where could he be going with that sawed off shotgun?
Click to expand...
 
spoonogsback has posted another victory for freemanism on David Ickes
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113638&page=12
Last week Three guys were arrested in open court ... none gave their names one was badly beaten (and he already had 4inches removed from his spine after a beating previously) He was sentanced to 2 months in the slammer for asking the so called Judge his name .... they beat him bad .....

He did not surrender, he did not lie down..... We have him out now and he will not be going back in ..... Those that hurt him will have to make amends .... We insist on it ......

The other two were released after 6 hours of questions ... no one gave their Name .....
Click to expand...

amazing :jaw-dropp
JB
 
Looks like MerlinCove over on the DI forums finally did enough false warnings to get me banned. I didn't even know to be honest. I was done with the forum since the FOTL are in hysterics over there but just happened to notice while I was doing a google search and a thread I had posted in came up!

FOTL: When you can't refute the evidence against you, just terminate the opposition. :) I suspect it was a retaliatory action since the JREF banned yozhik..er especially. He whined to the DI moderators enough I guess. I usually try to place nice with the woo sites but I think this time I'll just use proxys and keep at it.
 
Last edited:
hey all

im fairly new around here, more of a lurker really. the jref is pretty much the first place i come to check out any new crazy-sounding theories abound on the interwebs. this thread has been most enlightening about all this freeman woo, and for that i want to thank everyone, particularly those in the legal business - your knowledge and understanding of this most complex of subjects has been intriguing and illuminating.

as to the FOTL - i pose to you the question, why do you think have you failed to convince me, and by the looks of things, most of the people on here, that your theory is correct? everyone here seems to put up well-constructed and polite arguments, and many here clearly know the subject very well, and all you can retaliate with is derogatory name-calling and repeating the same disproven ideas? your mothers should have told you that is no way to win an argument.

i will be following this thread from the sidelines :)
 
jargon buster quoted spoony on ickes:
none gave their names one was badly beaten (and he already had 4inches removed from his spine after a beating previously) He was sentanced to 2 months in the slammer for asking the so called Judge his name ...
Click to expand...

So the court managed a two month contract with the strawman even though the strawman wasn't present?
I'm surprised at spoony for posting that.
He debunks himself there.
 
I have a recording of spoony saying he has walked out of court on around 14occasions after refusing to contract.
No proof of course :)

He thought it was just a conversation between me and him so his friends may know if hes telling the truth or not.
I will throw it in his face on his own forum if he gets shirty.
I recorded it becauase I was warned he was slippery.
JB/asky
 
drkitten said:
I'm not sure what "history of law" means in this context, but I suspect that recent experiences under the Soviet boot might have something to do with it, too.
Click to expand...
by history of law I ment development over centuries. For a long time there was no Magna charta.Most probably till 16th century. It's some time I had my history lessons,so I¨d have to look againg to refresh memory.

And AFAIK there was no Common law.

It's hard for someone to be taken seriously about the police state created by the requirement to have a driver's license and to pay your bills when the hearer has experienced a real police state.
...
Click to expand...

Lets see last 150 years of Czech rep.:
Till 1918 under Habsubrg Monarchy - Censorship and secret police
1938-45 - Protectorate - Gestapo...
1948-1989 - Communism. Survivors of worst periods are still alive.
There were two worst periods:
1948-1960 - processes,physical abuse
1969-1980th - psychological terror of "suspects",long terms in prisons.
-you could be denied travelling outside of borders
-had to ask for foreing currency
-you could be found ideologically "unreliable" and fired from good employment
(even universities were affected)

and so on.

I sometime wish FOTLs would have to live for some years under some of these regimes. (Best would be Protectorate and either 50th or 70th)
 
Klimax said:
Lets see last 150 years of Czech rep.:
Till 1918 under Habsubrg Monarchy - Censorship and secret police
1938-45 - Protectorate - Gestapo...
1948-1989 - Communism. Survivors of worst periods are still alive.
There were two worst periods:
1948-1960 - processes,physical abuse
1969-1980th - psychological terror of "suspects",long terms in prisons.
-you could be denied travelling outside of borders
-had to ask for foreing currency
-you could be found ideologically "unreliable" and fired from good employment
(even universities were affected)
Click to expand...

Sounds like Prague was a cool place to be between 1920 and 1937, though.....

:D Maybe that's when the "common law" the FOTL keep talking about was in charge and no one had to pay taxes or licence their cars. :D
 
Lallante said:
I am breaking a very very long silence just to say that pretty much everything "Especially" has claimed about English Law (not UK law.... sigh) is wrong.

I have a first in Jurisprudence (the study of the philosophy and internal logic of law) from the University of Oxford, with specialisation in the history and development of English law AND constitutional law, and so if I were so inclined I could debunk him accurately, with sources, point by point.

However this is unnecessary as his base assumption, that common law can bind Parliament and Parliament cannot override common law contradicts possibly the most fundamental legal principle of English Law (which, amusingly, is also a cornerstone principle of the unwritten common law English constitution), namely the principle of Parliament Sovereignty (literally, that nothing, including Parliament, can bind Parliament).

Thus his argument, that Parliament is bound by (and therefore now regularly breaks) the unwritten common law is internally contradictory, as the key most important rights provided by the common law are those of the unwritten constitution and it is universally accepted that it is a key constitutional principle is that Parliament cannot be bound.
Click to expand...


The problem is that what the FOTLers call "common law" is not the same as what everyone else calls "common law". The FOTLer version is just the bits of the law that they agree with, or that they find useful, which they claim are made not by judges but by God. Can God create a Parliament so big that He can't bind it? ;)
 
Stacey Grove said:
jargon buster quoted spoony on ickes:


Quote:
none gave their names one was badly beaten (and he already had 4inches removed from his spine after a beating previously) He was sentanced to 2 months in the slammer for asking the so called Judge his name ...

So the court managed a two month contract with the strawman even though the strawman wasn't present?
I'm surprised at spoony for posting that.
He debunks himself there.
Click to expand...

How can you lose four inches from your spine?

Is there a doctor in the house?
 
tsig said:
How can you lose four inches from your spine?

Is there a doctor in the house?
Click to expand...

I think it might be a case of the freeloader not walking quite as tall once the harsh reality of the law was imposed and his fotl dreams dissolved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom