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The etchics of keeping cats

Mister Earl said:
I just wanted to add that this thread was my introduction to the construct referred to as a cat run. Loving the idea, considering building one when I get my own place built.

#EDIT: I wonder how difficult it would be to have high grass grow in a cat run. Something for the little beasts to prowl through. If not that, some kind of cat-safe high grass simulant?
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Just buy sod and let it grow some in a tray, then put it in the run. You can carpet the whole run for about $20 if it's less than 15 long, at local prices.
 
Quote (See post 6 for link)

Cats are one of the top threats to US wildlife, killing billions of animals each year, a study suggests.

The authors estimate they are responsible for the deaths of between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds and 6.9-20.7 billion mammals annually.

Writing in Nature Communications, the scientists said stray and feral cats were the worst offenders. However, they added that pet cats also played a role and that owners should do more to reduce their impact.

The authors concluded that more animals are dying at the claws of cats in the United States than in road accidents, collisions with buildings or poisonings.

End quote

First, humans are really very hypocritical when complaining about cats contributing to the global extinction of 33 species. The extinction of how many species have been the result of human activity? And how many species are still threatened?

My experience of domestic cats has led me to two conclusions. First, all the domestic cats I have known have been too well fed and idle to chase and catch anything which didn’t have a death wish. Unless your average sparrow was waving a banner saying “eat me”, they just looked on in mild interest and seemed to think “why bother?” Feral cats really don’t have to spend much time hunting to get a decent meal anyway.

Secondly, I suspect that most of their prey is sick or otherwise not feeling on top of the world. It’s called “survival of the fittest”, a well know contributor to that process called “evolution”. Or perhaps the Intelligent Designer creates suitable prey.

As far as the “indoor/outdoor” dispute is concerned, I’ve only had one cat hit by a car. That didn’t kill him: it was feline AIDS which did.
 
Aepervius said:
I never heard of a cat viciously attacking a passerby.
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I've heard that furniture movers are sometimes attacked by cats when delivering or collecting furniture. Apparently some cats can get territorial.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Just buy sod and let it grow some in a tray, then put it in the run. You can carpet the whole run for about $20 if it's less than 15 long, at local prices.
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Fifteen feet is pretty much out of the question. It might be some sort of disorder, but when I get in the mood to do some building, I tend to go well overboard. It would shock me none if this hypothetical cat run ended up with a tunnel at some point. :)
 
rustypouch said:
Piggy said:
You know who's primarily to blame for the mass destruction of birds in areas populated by humans?

A: Humans

When the Europeans arrived in the area where I now live, there were enormous flocks of birds. Today, the flocks are tiny, from a few dozen to a few hundred.

That's not because of cats.

It's because WE wiped out their habitat and hunted them.

So forgive me if I don't have any patience for a human whining about how cats kill wildlife. Because if it weren't for us, there would be so much wildlife that the cats couldn't make a dent.
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So because humans screwed up in the past, we shouldn't take steps now to preserve what's left?
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You're right. We should.

Thing is, nothing's changed. We're still the problem, cats aside. Piggy's point remains valid.

From the link upthread,

The National Audubon Society has declared that “worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction.”
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It's easier to blame the cats, though, instead of looking in the mirror.
 
quadraginta said:
You're right. We should.

Thing is, nothing's changed. We're still the problem, cats aside. Piggy's point remains valid.

From the link upthread,



It's easier to blame the cats, though, instead of looking in the mirror.
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I'm not saying we're not a big part of the problem.

It's just that this argument "x has a greater effect than y, so it's pointless to do anything about y" has never convinced me.

If you'd like to cut down your monthly budget, do you ignore things like cable bill or eating out, because rent's the largest part, and cutting the smaller items wouldn't have as big of an effect? Why not reduce wherever possible?
 
Cats are a human problem. We domesticated them and introduced them to the habitats they're destroying. Cats are our responsibility because we've bred them to be dependent on us, and brought them into the areas where they've been diminishing the bird and animal population for centuries.

No one is trying to blame the cats. Please, let's get a grip on the argument being put forward here.
 
Who is this "our" and "we"? It is an attractive and simple sentiment, but I can't abide by such reasoning.
 
Vortigern99 said:
Cats are a human problem. We domesticated them and introduced them to the habitats they're destroying. Cats are our responsibility because we've bred them to be dependent on us, and brought them into the areas where they've been diminishing the bird and animal population for centuries.

No one is trying to blame the cats. Please, let's get a grip on the argument being put forward here.
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Spot on.

The SPCA is not the answer to "animal control". They should be renamed "Dog & Cat Auschwitz" for what they really do.

As someone hinted earlier, the problem is larger and more widespread than the subject of this thread. A new thread might be needed to explore this point, but here is a related subject:

I live in an area city people refer to as "farm country". Their view of a farm is a family living a rustic life, with a big farm garden and a few cows, hogs, chickens, and what have you.

Farms have been extinct here in the Canadian prairies since the 1960's. There are no farms in the Canadian prairies today.

What we do have is industrial agriculture, which for a nature-lover like me is as close to hell on earth as you can get. Millions of square miles of land are sterilized each Spring, sown with one form of plant life, artificially fertilized with poisonous chemicals, sprayed with more poisonous chemicals, harvested, sorted for quality (a process that is incredibly wasteful), and transported to market.

The definition of growing crops locally is "the conversion of fossil fuels into food".

The waste alone is horrific. You know those perfect uniform apples you buy at the supermarket? Apples are sorted in order to produce the illusion of uniformity. Imperfect apples (a good proportion of them) are converted into juice.

I mention this in the context of cats because all animals, not just cats, have no place else to go. Those millions of square miles of farmland you see when you fly over North America from coast to coast are a toxic wasteland.

When I was working on the highways a few years back, we used to watch the crop dusters at work. Animals out in the fields (deer, for example), caught in the spray, would fall the the ground and convulse horribly until they died.

The stress we humans have placed upon the lands and oceans is truly horrific- all the more so because it is almost perfectly hidden. The prairies appear lush and green and healthy, when the truth is that they're unnatural, toxic, dangerous, and are the false face of a sickness that is pervasive throughout modern life.

I'm going to go pat my kitties, now.
 
You don't keep a cat - it lets you live in it's house!

If you have a cat and it never goes out / you don't let it out, then it isn't a cat, it's a disgrace to catkind.;)

I assume this is a mostly American thing? Only British people I know who keep their cats indoors do so because they're pedigreed to the point of uselessness (eg Persians) and wouldn't last two seconds outside. I don't consider those as 'proper' cats either. I suppose some might keep them indoors in the 'big cities'... but I'd still let them take their chances outside...

I have 3 cats, they all have free use of the cat flap and all spend significant time outside - killing things or driving off the neighbour dogs and foxes that occasionally stray into the garden or continuing their ongoing war with the local magpies (stalemate at the moment but very entertaining). They're all about 10 years old and I expect them (on past experience) to live another 5 - 8 years. They've been neutered but no vaccines or other veterinary intervention.

Unlike the expectation of the programme makers of the recent Horizon documentary, I was not 'shocked' or 'upset' when their experiment showed that cats couldn't give a toss about their owners - I was delighted. Confirmed exactly what I thought and is the reason I love cats (unlike blindly stupid and loyal dogs!).

There you go, just thought I'd stir the pot :p.
 
Mister Earl said:
I just wanted to add that this thread was my introduction to the construct referred to as a cat run. Loving the idea, considering building one when I get my own place built.

#EDIT: I wonder how difficult it would be to have high grass grow in a cat run. Something for the little beasts to prowl through. If not that, some kind of cat-safe high grass simulant?
Click to expand...



High grass is not difficult at all. My run is 16'x16', and consists of a U-shaped deck, with the open end of the U abutting the house. This leaves a large open area in the middle where grass grows, and I let it grow pretty much uncontrolled (I'll cut it back once or twice each summer). Right now the grass there is close to two feet tall in spots.

And yes, they do love sneaking about in the tall grass. It's quite funny to see one cat sitting on the decking area, only to have another come leaping out of the tall grass onto him.
 
Anyone here have a cat wheel?

I've long toyed with the idea of hooking it up to a generator . . . :)
 
gsmonks said:
Anyone here have a cat wheel?

I've long toyed with the idea of hooking it up to a generator . . . :)
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I'd love to try one of those, but they're too expensive to buy on speculation, in case the cats decide they don't like it.


I used to board my guys at a cat-only kennel that featured a lot of different cat structures, and I kept telling her she should set one up, with a webcam, so people could see their cats on the wheel.

And then, if she was set up as a distributor, she could sell them a wheel for home, now that they know the cat would use it.

For some reason she never went with this idea, though.
 
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