The etchics of keeping cats

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We need to find something that will thin out the wild cat population.

Do we know anything that likes to eat <SNIP>?

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, breach of rule 9...let's not go there.

 

[Vortigern99]

Here's where someone posts a pic of Michael Douglas.

 

[coalesce]

Here's where someone posts a pic of Michael Douglas.

Or me.

Michael

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Here's where someone posts a pic of Michael Douglas.

You went there.

 

[Vortigern99]

My uncle ate his cats in the late 70s. That's all I got left for this thread.

 

[Information Analyst]

Unlike the expectation of the programme makers of the recent Horizon documentary, I was not 'shocked' or 'upset' when their experiment showed that cats couldn't give a toss about their owners - I was delighted. Confirmed exactly what I thought and is the reason I love cats (unlike blindly stupid and loyal dogs!).

Yes, there was a lot in that programme that was presented as a revelation that will have come as no surprise to anyone who's ever shared their home with cats!

I think the issue of loyalty is certainly more complex. Cats can have a perfectly adequate home, but that doesn't mean that they can't be having valuable interaction with other humans elsewhere. Although my wife and I live in a cat-free home, that's really only because a) she developed an allergy in her late teens, having grow up with and loving cats, and b) the house is rented, and we couldn't put a cat-flat in the double-glazed back door, anyway. Despite this, a number of neighbouring cats are regular visitors, come for strokes and playtime, sit with us in the garden, and generally hang out. None of this is enticed, not least because we have a firm rule of never offering them any food (although they do like the skanky water that collects in an old plastic box by the back door), they have just learned that it is a place where they are welcome and won't be chased away (except by each other, or being occasionally startled by a carelessly dropped peg basket). On the rare occasions that we see them out in the street (we live in a long terrace, and most cats keeps to the long line of inter-connected back gardens), they will almost unhesitating come to us with little encouragement. Basically, I think cats value the company of humans who they like and trust, even those who behave towards them the "right" way on a first meeting. Some people "speak cat," others - even some who actually think they "own" their own - don't.

 

[Information Analyst]

Allow me to clarify my meaning. Bears for example evolved in a given habitat, affecting and being affected by all other species of plant, animal, bacteria, etc. in that habitat. Domesticated cats did not evolve here in the US, and data shows their presence is destructive to indigenous wildlife.

We can have a discussion about that if you want to.

Actually, the data show that it is "believed" that out of 15-20 billion birds landing in the US each year, 2.3 billion may be the victims of the 80 million feral or 84 million "owned" cats (probably a lot less of the latter, given that a lot apprently are permanently grounded). So, in other words, 13.1% (11.5-15.3%) of birds fall prey to cats. While that does indeed fit within the range of the actual Roman definition of "decimation," it ain't likely to be a game-changer. As has been pointed out elsewhere, many victim birds will be weak (through injury, illness, or age), and of course many will be species that are either not even remotely threatened, or may be regarded as pests, anyway (e.g. pigeons), and won't be going the way of the Stephens Island Wren.

Of course, it could also be said that the domestic dog did not evolve in the United States, either.

 

[catsmate]

For those of you who are concerned with the damage cats do to the local wildlife I have bad news for you. There's something worse, and it's not getting any better, quite the opposite. Coyotes are spreading and invading everywhere. The first one I saw in Missouri was on 7th St., not far from the Stadium.

Not in Ireland they're not.

Hmm... Cats poop and piss in our yards without consent, but they also decimate populations of birds that also poop and piss in our yards without consent. I wonder if it balances out?

I don't think my cat has been decimating the bird local population. I tend to overfeed her, so she's a bit on the tubby side. She never brings dead things home. And most of the birds I see in the area are magpies, sometimes cockatoos, not easy targets. (Although I'm sure that some cats will attack them.)

That reminds me of an acquaintance who adopted a cat specifically to deter birds, mostly pigeons, from crapping on their cars. They have cherry trees and the................emissions of the birds after they ate the fruit was quite amazingly unpleasant to the paintwork.
One adopted feline later, no more damaged paintwork.

Actually, the data show that it is "believed" that out of 15-20 billion birds landing in the US each year, 2.3 billion may be the victims of the 80 million feral or 84 million "owned" cats (probably a lot less of the latter, given that a lot apprently are permanently grounded). So, in other words, 13.1% (11.5-15.3%) of birds fall prey to cats. While that does indeed fit within the range of the actual Roman definition of "decimation," it ain't likely to be a game-changer. As has been pointed out elsewhere, many victim birds will be weak (through injury, illness, or age), and of course many will be species that are either not even remotely threatened, or may be regarded as pests, anyway (e.g. pigeons), and won't be going the way of the Stephens Island Wren.

Of course, it could also be said that the domestic dog did not evolve in the United States, either.

Indeed the presence of the cat is an evolutionary pressure on birds, 'improving' the breed by thinning out the weak, sickly and injured.

 

[Pendleton]

The Egyptians had a cat headed god called Bast. Probably all you need to know if you're thinking of having one in your life.

On the plus side when mine hoiks up a hairball she looks like one of the crew of a four man bobsleigh about the start a descent.

And the snuggling. Don't forget the snuggling.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not in Ireland they're not.

Ooops, oversight on my part. I'll ship a pair out Monday.

 

[AlBell]

And send a breeding pair to US areas of cat-haters; in Denver at least coyotes seem to love eating cats.

 

[Nessie]

One of cats is on a mission to take out all other animals in his territory. He has killed various birds but they are pest birds like pigeons, crows and seagulls. He has killed a good few mice, which is why he came to the house in the first place.

But last night he brought home a bat, which is the first time he has caught something we would rather he did not. The bat was rescued from him and left alive in the back garden. In the morning it was gone, hopefully having recovered from the shock and flown away.

 

[Aepervius]

But last night he brought home a bat, which is the first time he has caught something we would rather he did not. The bat was rescued from him and left alive in the back garden. In the morning it was gone, hopefully having recovered from the shock and flown away.

Yes, maybe.

Or most probably eaten by the next predator seeing a wounded easy prey

 

[wolfgirl]

Our current cat was a feral rescue. He refuses to be kept inside. He has literally torn pieces out of the floor and out of the doors and torn down curtains in his attempt to get out when we tried to keep him in.

He has a cat door, so he comes and goes as he pleases. He mostly prefers to stay outside, and it obviously gives him great pleasure to be out there. I feel it would be unfair of us to insist he stay in.

Would he be safer? Maybe. So would we, if we stayed in the house all the time. I doubt we'd be very happy, though. We measure our risks.

I should be clear that we live on a safe street for the express purpose of it being safe for cats. When we shopped for our home 20 years ago, we told the realtor one of our requirements was no busy streets because our cats (four at the time) like to go outside. I would NOT recommend letting cats out if you live on a busy street. I'm always dismayed when I see a dead cat on the side of the road and think "Why would anyone let their cat out on this street?"

As for people who say they won't live long, all of our cats have been outdoor cats, and they have all lived very long lives...up to 21 years for one of them. And I firmly believe they were very happy years because they had complete freedom.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As for people who say they won't live long, all of our cats have been outdoor cats, and they have all lived very long lives...up to 21 years for one of them. And I firmly believe they were very happy years because they had complete freedom.

The average lifespan for indoor-outdoor cats does allow for long-lived cats. That's balanced out by the cats that go out once and are never seen again, or seen crushed beside the road.

 

[wolfgirl]

You don't keep a cat - it lets you live in it's house!

Dogs have masters; cats have staff!

I assume this is a mostly American thing? Only British people I know who keep their cats indoors do so because they're pedigreed to the point of uselessness (eg Persians) and wouldn't last two seconds outside.

Yes, I think this is true.

Unlike the expectation of the programme makers of the recent Horizon documentary, I was not 'shocked' or 'upset' when their experiment showed that cats couldn't give a toss about their owners - I was delighted. Confirmed exactly what I thought and is the reason I love cats (unlike blindly stupid and loyal dogs!).

So glad to hear someone else say this! I love dogs, too, but I respect cats. What some people seem to hate about them - they're so aloof, they don't obey, they seem so mysterious - is the best thing about them!

 

[wolfgirl]

The average lifespan for indoor-outdoor cats does allow for long-lived cats. That's balanced out by the cats that go out once and are never seen again, or seen crushed beside the road.

Yup, understood and agreed. I'm just saying you can move your cat's odds to the good side of that average by taking precautions and being sensible. We live on a safe street, have our cat neutered, keep up on his shots, etc.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yup, understood and agreed. I'm just saying you can move your cat's odds to the good side of that average by taking precautions and being sensible. We live on a safe street, have our cat neutered, keep up on his shots, etc.

Good luck to your cats then.

 

[Mister Earl]

PVC piping would work for that. How large a kitty kastle are you planning?

This is all metaphorical for the moment, but ideally it'd be something like fifty feet by seventy. Plus twenty high?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This is all metaphorical for the moment, but ideally it'd be something like fifty feet by seventy. Plus twenty high?

May I suggest you make it no higher than you can reach easily. The size is up to you, but I would lay out a rough outline to give you some scale first. Yellow safety tape ("crime scene" tape) is good for this. Make sure you have "safe places" for them to hide, and have at least some of them off the ground in case of rain. The plastic tubs they sell at Wal-mart make nice kitty castles.