The etchics of keeping cats

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This is all metaphorical for the moment, but ideally it'd be something like fifty feet by seventy. Plus twenty high?

BTW, my three car garage is 37 feet by 28 feet.

 

[Mister Earl]

Gotta be long enough to allow for the tunnel.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Gotta be long enough to allow for the tunnel.

And for Steve McQueen to get sufficient speed up to jump the fence.

 

[GlennB]

Our current cat was a feral rescue. He refuses to be kept inside. He has literally torn pieces out of the floor and out of the doors and torn down curtains in his attempt to get out when we tried to keep him in.

He has a cat door, so he comes and goes as he pleases. He mostly prefers to stay outside, and it obviously gives him great pleasure to be out there. I feel it would be unfair of us to insist he stay in.

Would he be safer? Maybe. So would we, if we stayed in the house all the time. I doubt we'd be very happy, though. We measure our risks.

I should be clear that we live on a safe street for the express purpose of it being safe for cats. When we shopped for our home 20 years ago, we told the realtor one of our requirements was no busy streets because our cats (four at the time) like to go outside. I would NOT recommend letting cats out if you live on a busy street. I'm always dismayed when I see a dead cat on the side of the road and think "Why would anyone let their cat out on this street?"

As for people who say they won't live long, all of our cats have been outdoor cats, and they have all lived very long lives...up to 21 years for one of them. And I firmly believe they were very happy years because they had complete freedom.

Amen.

 

[Mister Earl]

And for Steve McQueen to get sufficient speed up to jump the fence.

Don't know who that is, but if he's in some kind of vehicle and he's planning on jumping my hypothetical cat run, he might want to wait until it's built first. And before there's cats in there, of course.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Don't know who that is, but if he's in some kind of vehicle and he's planning on jumping my hypothetical cat run, he might want to wait until it's built first. And before there's cats in there, of course.

I was referring to the scene in "The Great Escape" where he literally jumps out of Germany.

 

[fitzgibbon]

I live in an urban area (kinda), and foxes and coyotes and raccoons and skunks still share the same space. Might not be always cats.

Coyotes have (until very recently anyway) kept the local outdoor cat population under control. About 5 years ago, many a "Fluffy" or "Mittens" went mysteriously missing before said mystery was solved. The owners who cared le[t Fluffy & Mittens indoors (their wants be damned). I have to assume the feline menu got scant and the coyotes moved on as a local predominantly-white cat has been seen more than once.

Fitz

 

[fitzgibbon]

When I was a kid I used to pull down swallow nests from the rafters of a barn to feed the hatchlings to a formerly feral cat that befriended me. I have no guilt about it. The closer your proximity to nature, the less you worry about nonsense like "suffering" and "killing" as it pertains to animals. I assure you there was no shortage of swallows around due to this.

I surmise that you prefer to have to swat away mosquitoes, house flies, deer flies, etc that the swallows feast on?

Fitz

 

[fitzgibbon]

And send a breeding pair to US areas of cat-haters; in Denver at least coyotes seem to love eating cats.

Not just Denver. There was much concern over small children a few years back when a coyote was seen in Mississauga. No "A Cry in the Dark" moments so far as I know.

Fitz

 

[AlBell]

Yep, how soon until "A Coyote stole my baby!".

 

[CORed]

For those of you who are concerned with the damage cats do to the local wildlife I have bad news for you. There's something worse, and it's not getting any better, quite the opposite. Coyotes are spreading and invading everywhere. The first one I saw in Missouri was on 7th St., not far from the Stadium.

"Invading and spreading" really only applies to the eastern half of North America. The western part has always had them. Extirpation of wolves and deforestation are likely factors in the spread of Coyotes to eastern North America. I doubt you'll be getting rid of them any time soon. Massive predator control efforts (poiosning, trapping and shooting) in the west had little impact on Coyotes though they were largely "successful" in extirpating wolves and grizzly bears, and greatly reduced swift and kit foxes as and Black-footed Ferrets as collateral damage.

 

[CORed]

Okay, I see what you mean. My points specifically addressed "kept" cats and cat owners' obligations to their animals, and to their neighbors. You're talking about solutions to the problem of feral cats, which is not really the topic of this thread and is beyond cat owners' ability to control.

However, as a brief sidebar I would suggest that considering other options beyond "extermination" would be a good place to start.

Given the fecundity of cats, I doubt that any effort to exterminate feral cats will meet with much success anyway (and will certainly kill a significant number of outdoor pet cats, enraging their owners). Birds and other wildlife will have to adapt to the presence of cats or go extinct.

"Barn cats" (feral or semi-domesticated are often tolerated in rural areas because of they are useful for controlling rodents, which is probably how cats got domesticated (or domesticated humans) in the first place.

 

[catsmate]

Ooops, oversight on my part. I'll ship a pair out Monday.

Cool, we need some large predators.

 

[Polaris]

Dogs have masters; cats have staff!Yes, I think this is true.So glad to hear someone else say this! I love dogs, too, but I respect cats. What some people seem to hate about them - they're so aloof, they don't obey, they seem so mysterious - is the best thing about them!

I've found myself leaning this way since I got Motown a few years ago. Cats are independent. Dogs follow orders.

 

[GlennB]

Birds and other wildlife will have to adapt to the presence of cats or go extinct.

They already have adapted, or rather they did a million years ago, adapting to general predatory threat. Birds have wings, lizards crawl into tiny cracks in the rocks, and so on.

Meanwhile, the death count of wild birds at the teeth of cats has to be heavily discounted because cats - like all hunters - prefer feeble prey. Our UK cats waited for failed fledgling starlings to fall from the eaves of our roof. Those birds were dead anyway, though still flapping when they hit the ground.

 

[Brian-M]

I'm half-tempted to start a thread on the etchics of cats keeping humans.

Thank you for the massage, kitty. But next time could you not use your claws?

 

[CORed]

They already have adapted, or rather they did a million years ago, adapting to general predatory threat. Birds have wings, lizards crawl into tiny cracks in the rocks, and so on.

Meanwhile, the death count of wild birds at the teeth of cats has to be heavily discounted because cats - like all hunters - prefer feeble prey. Our UK cats waited for failed fledgling starlings to fall from the eaves of our roof. Those birds were dead anyway, though still flapping when they hit the ground.

Where cats have been devastating to native bird species is places like New Zealand, Hawaii and other islands where there were no similar predators until cats were introduced. Although Felis catus/Felis Sylvestris was not originally in North America, bobcats and lynxes did inhabit a good portion of the continent prior to the influx of European people and the cats they brought with them.

 

[mgidm86]

One of cats is on a mission to take out all other animals in his territory.

Isn't that sweet. Anyone here have a large angry dog they'd like to let roam free for a week as an experiment?

I've found myself leaning this way since I got Motown a few years ago. Cats are independent. Dogs follow orders.

Which is why dogs make good pets. Remember these are pets. If you had a child that didn't follow your orders would you consider that a good trait? You are, after all, supposed to be responsible for the behavior of your animal/child.

Cat owners admit they have no control over their animals, and it's cute for them.

I'm half-tempted to start a thread on the etchics of cats keeping humans.

Thank you for the massage, kitty. But next time could you not use your claws?

Guess what, your cat isn't massaging you.

 

[Polaris]

Which is why dogs make good pets. Remember these are pets. If you had a child that didn't follow your orders would you consider that a good trait? You are, after all, supposed to be responsible for the behavior of your animal/child.

Cat owners admit they have no control over their animals, and it's cute for them.

Animals aren't children. Children aren't pets either. I'm in control of the cats as much as they need to be controlled. They don't go outside, and they do their business in one place. They don't do trick, in the sense that dogs do, except for the little one who has to whine before I'll get him his ice cube. Cats can be trained if it's started early enough. The old "wisdom" of "just leave the cat alone, it will figure things out on its own" doesn't work, and I suspect a lot of people who don't like cats have only been exposed to cats that were raised with that mindset.

Not saying dogs aren't good pets, because they are - for some people. But I've never had a cat that would run up to the door when I came home, jump up on me and get so excited it urinates on the floor.

Cats are low maintenance, don't stink and won't keep me up all night barking for no reason.

 

[Brian-M]

Guess what, your cat isn't massaging you.

I'm talking about that kneading action that cats sometimes do. One theory is that it's a hold-over from the action that kittens take to stimulate the mother cat into producing more milk.

If she thinks I'm going to suddenly start producing milk from my stomach or thigh, she's bound to be disappointed.