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The biggest straw man

Are there humans, who can't work hard? If yes, how do you then explain that?

Can all hard-working humans become financially secure? If yes, then please give evidence.

In this country it is possible and fairly easy. We don't have oppressive taxes taking half our income. That is what socialist aspire to do, make ALL the same?
You cant really have this idea of a collective, then expect all who work hard to be successful?
 
In this country it is possible and fairly easy. We don't have oppressive taxes taking half our income. That is what socialist aspire to do, make ALL the same?
You cant really have this idea of a collective, then expect all who work hard to be successful?

Logger, that is communism, not socialism


There is a difference.

I really don't think that the Kingdom of Sweden (for example) is either
 
Logger, that is communism, not socialism


There is a difference.

I really don't think that the Kingdom of Sweden (for example) is either

Does communism even have taxes?

We are discussing high tax rates for the betterment of society?
 
It amuses that conservatives have adopted this notion that being a selfish ass is "manly."

Self-sacrifice is traditionally the virtue that represents a manly-man. If there's suffering to be done, let me take it on because I'm *********** macho and I can handle it.

John Wayne steps in to engage in the gun battle to save someone from having to go through it. When it's cold, a manly man passes the blanket to the children because he can endure. When food is short, it goes to the pregnant woman.

It what perverse universe are the tough guys the one's who cravenly cling to their creature comforts while others suffer?

Please. There's nothing more pathetic than listening to million and billionaires whine about their tax rate when people in this country don't have health care, homes, and adequate nutrition.

No, you don't get it; the needy choose to be needy, and the market demands the ultimate sacrifice of the wealthy: that they respect the choice of the needy and refuse, against their better angels, to help in any way. Then the wealthy commiserate over tax- subsidized martinis in tax- subsidized private jets.
 
I like this fantasy that there is a higher percentage of moochers in the US than there are in other modern countries. As if there are no drunks in Ireland or drug addicts in Germany. As if there are no functionally unemployable or lazy people in any modern country but the US.

I think this is based in racism, but it has moved past it in many corners. They know there are more whites on welfare than there are blacks, so they lump them in as part of the moocher class. "The 48%" who live off the government, as Mitt Romney put it. Of course, a large number of those people are retirees, soldiers (active or inactive), police, firefighters, teachers, and other government employees who work just as hard at their jobs as every other employee. But Mitt needed a big number, so he lumped them in, too. Big numbers sell better to those who don't like to think too hard.

American conservatives think American Moochers are another aspect of American Exceptionalism. Our lazy slobs are the laziest!

If only they'd leave our shores for even a week long trip they'd realize that most humans, here and abroad, are very odd in that they are just human. Nothing exceptional.
 
I like this fantasy that there is a higher percentage of moochers in the US than there are in other modern countries. As if there are no drunks in Ireland or drug addicts in Germany. As if there are no functionally unemployable or lazy people in any modern country but the US.

I think this is based in racism, but it has moved past it in many corners. They know there are more whites on welfare than there are blacks, so they lump them in as part of the moocher class. "The 48%" who live off the government, as Mitt Romney put it. Of course, a large number of those people are retirees, soldiers (active or inactive), police, firefighters, teachers, and other government employees who work just as hard at their jobs as every other employee. But Mitt needed a big number, so he lumped them in, too. Big numbers sell better to those who don't like to think too hard.

American conservatives think American Moochers are another aspect of American Exceptionalism. Our lazy slobs are the laziest!

If only they'd leave our shores for even a week long trip they'd realize that most humans, here and abroad, are very odd in that they are just human. Nothing exceptional.

Lol
Oh the drama, how about we just accept what certain realities are instead of making people into your usual devil, Mkay.
 
Lol
Oh the drama, how about we just accept what certain realities are instead of making people into your usual devil, Mkay.

Provide evidence that your view of reality has any basis in fact and we can move from there.
 
Education?
Did you really not know that?
And who said people have to live comfortably?

And who pays for this education?

I supposed that's a fundamental difference between us. I want people to be happy and comfortable, and to avoid suffering. You espouse policies which encourage it.
 
And who pays for this education?

I supposed that's a fundamental difference between us. I want people to be happy and comfortable, and to avoid suffering. You espouse policies which encourage it.

Based on the perverse notion that suffering will "build character" or lead to some end.

And yet, the people with the most in this culture suffer the least. I would be more inclined to believe this Conservative notion that you need to get rid of social programs that provide basic needs to motivate work ethic if it was applied it to the children of the obscenely wealthy.

We should have 100% inheritance taxes so the children of privilege can learn about work ethic through suffering.
 
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Based on the perverse notion that suffering will "build character" or lead to some end.

It's the pervasive poisonous nonsense that is the prosperity gospel turned into policy. Suffering will build character and those of true faith will be rewarded for it. Those lacking faith will remain poor and deserve it.
 
Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?

The funny thing is that the real issue in most South/Central American Countries isn’t Socialism. It’s inadequate regulation to deal with Market Failures. They often swing socialist when people try to treat the symptom (Wealth Gap) instead of the problem (Monopolies and information asymmetry)
 
It's the pervasive poisonous nonsense that is the prosperity gospel turned into policy. Suffering will build character and those of true faith will be rewarded for it. Those lacking faith will remain poor and deserve it.

That the rich don't propose this themselves shows how much faith they have in the concept.

I swear this is not parody:

Contemporary conservatives still value that old American character. William Bennett in his lectures reads admiringly from an account of the Donner party written by a survivor that tells the story in spare, stoic style. He puts the letter down and asks incredulously, “Where did those people go?” But if you believe that early Americans possessed a fortitude that present-day Americans lack, and if you think the loss is an important one, then you have to think hard about why that fortitude disappeared. Merely exhorting Americans to show more fortitude is going to have about as much effect on them as a lecture from the student council president on school spirit. Reorganizing the method by which they select and finance their schools won’t do it either, and neither will the line-item veto, or discharge petitions, or entrusting Congress with the power to deny individual NEA grants, or court decisions strinking down any and all acts of politically correct tyranny emanating from the offices of America’s deans of students – worthwhile though each and every one of those things may be. It is socials that form character, as another conservative hero, Alexis de Tocqueville, demonstrated, and if our characters are now less virtuous than formerly, we must identify in what way our social conditions have changed in order to understand why.

Of course there have been hundreds of such changes – never mind since the Donner party’s day, just since 1945 … But the expansion of government is the only one we can do anything about.

All of these changes have had the same effect: the emancipation of the individual appetite from restrictions imposed on it by limited resources, or religious dread, or community disapproval, or the risk of disease or personal catastophe.” (p. 202-3)
http://examinedlife.typepad.com/johnbelle/2003/11/dead_right.html

That is David Frum, a conservative who now has the reputation of being "reasonable" because he thinks Trump is a moron, referencing the Donner Party to lament how weak we have become. The Donner Party.

So, unless you're willing to devour your family members to cross a mountain range, you're too soft for this man:

90


Need to cut that Nanny State to teach people to be as rugged and uncompromising as David Frum.
 
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That the rich don't propose this themselves shows how much faith they have in the concept.

Indeed. The railing against it but the Republicans is wild, even though the exclusion is very high. Isn't inheritance unearned money, and it's possible to get over $5 million before taxes kick in.
 

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