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The biggest straw man

TraneWreck said:
Sad effort at a reductio.

Compare life with a disability prior to the ADA and after the ADA. You really want to argue there was no change in freedom for disabled folks? Inaction on accessibility dramatically affects the opportunity and freedom of people less physically capable.
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There was a change in freedom....at the expense of the freedom of others. I agreed that laws against stealing is a restriction on freedom.
 
BobTheCoward said:
There was a change in freedom....at the expense of the freedom of others. I agreed that laws against stealing is a restriction on freedom.
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Yes, it is always thus. I'm sure if we try we may be able to come up with a freedom given that doesn't affect the power and freedom of another - maybe just the right to think things - but as a matter of practicality, there is no way to give freedom without restricting it elsewhere.

It's a matter of priority.
 
BobTheCoward said:
It makes sense. Your objection seems to be that it has no implication outside it's own framework.
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Well, I suppose we need to have a conversation about what "sense" means, then, because you've defined freedom in such a way that it contradicts almost every historical and philosophical use of the word save for the very cynical application of "Freedom to Abuse" as with those imposing serfdom.

I would argue this makes little sense conceptually or definitionally, but that means much less to me than it's complete and utter uselessness in the arena of reality.
 
TraneWreck said:
Well, I suppose we need to have a conversation about what "sense" means, then, because you've defined freedom in such a way that it contradicts almost every historical and philosophical use of the word save for the very cynical application of "Freedom to Abuse" as with those imposing serfdom.

I would argue this makes little sense conceptually or definitionally, but that means much less to me than it's complete and utter uselessness in the arena of reality.
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And usefulness in the arena of reality means nothing to me. It really is a stupid restriction on a discussion.
 
BobTheCoward said:
And usefulness in the arena of reality means nothing to me. It really is a stupid restriction on a discussion.
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Right, I think I made that point some time ago.

It's amazing how this is always your fallback. I notice you didn't bother to explain what you meant when you used the word "freedom" at the beginning of the discourse. This strange meaning of yours is only shared with people after you're pressed. Don't you think it would be much more clear to define your terms at the beginning?
 
TraneWreck said:
Right, I think I made that point some time ago.

It's amazing how this is always your fallback. I notice you didn't bother to explain what you meant when you used the word "freedom" at the beginning of the discourse. This strange meaning of yours is only shared with people after you're pressed. Don't you think it would be much more clear to define your terms at the beginning?
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Good point. I know I'm really bad at this. But it gets us to what I think are interesting places like the X and Y argument with Lolmiller.
 
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