The Biblical Realities of Hell

[Paulhoff]

Exactly. Adultery was a crime against property. A double crime: not only was the adulterer tampering with another man's duly bought and paid for wife, but he was imperiling another man's inheritance: putting him at risk of leaving his estate to the adulterer's child.

Not in the good old days when Bastard was put on the Birth Certificate.

Paul

 

[Paulhoff]

Does anyone here think that the Christian religion as gotten nicer because of itself (remember the Dark Ages), or because of the outside pressure of knowledge that has come thru science (the Renaissance to today).

Paul

 

[Calrid]

Sartre was wrong and Mark Twain was closer to the truth hell isn't other people it's just fundamentalist Christians or non liberal believers. Seriously who would want a heaven to exist with just good weather and bad company?

Does anyone here think that the Christian religion as gotten nicer because of itself (remember the Dark Ages), or because of the outside pressure of knowledge that has come thru science (the Renaissance to today).

Paul

I remember when religion was proper hell and brimstone, like this guy. His church has harvested the souls of a million peasants!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujuE-GIY4

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

So how about the negative aspect of the spiritual, the Ying and Yang?
So what's known believed in, beings on both sides of the line?
If the positive shows it's self what about the negative?
There are two sides to that coin; experience both one or the other and that will change your point of view.
It’s just a matter of time.

I don't follow. What does that have to do with my analogy on personal revelation or its relation to the doctrine of predestination?

 

[dafydd]

I don't follow. What does that have to do with my analogy on personal revelation or its relation to the doctrine of predestination?

Nothing. Edge is incapable of conducting a sustained,coherent argument.

 

[JudeBrando]

Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Why is Paul so important to you as an anti-Christian?

Because Paul wrote, so-called Jesus didn't.

Alright then. Again:

Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?

 

[bikerdruid]

Alright then. Again:
Originally Posted by JudeBrando
Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?

paul preached paul. he could do no other. he never knew jesus.
paul took jesus' message of love and prostituted it and turned it into a political structure.
two thousand years of misogyny, fear, hate, sexual abuse and murder have been his legacy.

 

[JudeBrando]

The belief that there's anything beyond death is simply wishful thinking.

It may be true and it may be false. You do not know and I do not know. I have no problem with this. You do.

It's nice to think that maybe there's a world full of puppies and rainbows and sunshine beyond this dimension, but there's no evidence.

Evidence? I've never even seen any claims of such.

All the evidence points to people simply ceasing to exist.

Evidence? What "evidence" do you speak of? Death is obvious. What else do you mean?

I'm no angrier at the Christian god than I am at any god. They're all fictional beings. I have some anger towards Christianity because I find their belief system to be one of the more morally repugnant ones (the whole "we're all sinners worthy only of death, and we all need a savior to save us from the just punishment of a righteous god, so yes, please, give me one of those human sacrifices"). So yes, I do find it sickening when anybody thinks that I want to be a part of that club, or that I would choose to spend an eternity with a monster and his worshipping zombies. I don't want Christians to even fathom a miniscule thought that I want an ounce of what they're having. They can keep it for themselves, and they're not going to scare me with some imaginary hell which just happens to be more appealing than the alternative they try to peddle.

Obviously then, if all that you fear and shake your fist at turns out to be true, you wouldn't want heaven with God but would deliberately and intentionally want some "hell" away from God.

Your words. If one day, some day, 50 years from now or later tonight, you suddenly find yourself in hell, I suppose you can have no complaint as it is your wish fulfilled, right?

 

[JudeBrando]

paul preached paul.

Please explain.

 

[epix]

Alright then. Again:

Does that "again" refer to the number of your post? Like 6 and 6 and 6 again?

 

[bikerdruid]

Please explain.

didn't you read my whole post?
paul could not preach jesus. they never met.

 

[JudeBrando]

This is why faith is blind, it bears no relation to truth, or even the desire for truth.

According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ said "I am truth."
Whatever else you may say about it, that is either true or false, and any and every argument that you or I or anyone may proffer makes no difference to that stark statement.

It is a fallacy to think that just because two options exist, they must be given equal weight. There is a chance that the sun won't shine tomorrow, but this option does not enjoy equal standing with the chance that it will.

That is all well and good, but it has absolutely zero bearing on the truth of what I said that you apparently entirely side-stepped to avoid. So again, like it or not, as I said in simple and obvious truth, regardless of how uincomfortable it may make you feel:
Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

Faith is based on something, it is based on traditional superstition, fantasy, wishful thinking, respect for the claims of authority figures, altered brain states, all kinds of things. It is blind because not only is evidence not involved, it is spurned as unneccessary.

Define "evidence." Contrast it with "proof" if you can.

This last is a favorite claim for theists, but I have yet to meet my first angry atheist, and there is certainly no evidence of anger towards religion on this thread.

I don't know about any "favorite claims of theists," but some here are clearly very bothered by anything God, and they frequently post their very-bothered postings accordingly. I have never posted thousands of times against something I didn't believe in or care about? Have you? I'm certainly not troubled by anything I do not believe in. Are you?

I would also like to point out, yet again, that I don't believe it is possible to be angry at an entity that you don't believe exists.

You should read more here. Lots of vitriol to counter your yet again point.

 

[bikerdruid]

I don't know about any "favorite claims of theists," but some are clearly very bothered by anything God, and they frequently post their very-bothered postings accordingly. I have never posted thousands of times against something I didn't believe in or care about?

i think you are confused.
theists believe in a god, or gods.

 

[JudeBrando]

didn't you read my whole post? paul could not preach jesus. they never met.

Paul did not preach about Jesus Christ?! Is that what you are saying?
Was Paul directing others to Paul or to Christ?
Billy Graham did not meet Jesus. Does Billy Graham preach Jesus or Billy?

 

[JudeBrando]

i think you are confused.

You are confused.

 

[bikerdruid]

Paul did not preach about Jesus Christ?! Is that what you are saying?
Was Paul directing others to Paul or to Christ?
Billy Graham did not meet Jesus. Does Billy Graham preach Jesus or Billy?

now you got it.
paul was busy building his church.
billy graham was busy building his fortune.

You are confused.

no, sorry.....theists believe in god....atheists do not.

 

[JudeBrando]

no, sorry.....theists believe in god....atheists do not.

Theists believe in God? Really? Atheists do not believe in God?! Really?!
You might drop your automatic and instinctive antagonism and reconsider that such a ridiculously simple distinction probably is not my confusion, but might be your mistaken reading and assumption.

Or not.

 

[bikerdruid]

Theists believe in God? Really? Atheists do not believe in God?! Really?!
You might drop your automatic and instinctive antagonism and reconsider that such a ridiculously simple distinction probably is not my confusion, but might be your mistaken reading and assumption.

Or not.

wow....
you said this:
Originally Posted by JudeBrando
I don't know about any "favorite claims of theists," but some are clearly very bothered by anything God, and they frequently post their very-bothered postings accordingly. I have never posted thousands of times against something I didn't believe in or care about?
i was pointing out your confusion. are you not implying in this statement that theists are bitching 'about anything god'?

 

[Astreja]

According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ said "I am truth."
Whatever else you may say about it, that is either true or false, and any and every argument that you or I or anyone may proffer makes no difference to that stark statement.

Well, I'm going to assume the statement is simply poetic hyperbole, as the idea of {one particular individual = "truth"} requires an explanation of what that actually would mean in practice, plus supporting evidence. A bare assertion in an ancient text just doesn't do it for me.

Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

Okay, Jude; have it your way and call it "faith." It won't change anything other than the wording. I'm 99.999% sure that hell is fictional. Furthermore, I'm not prepared to give such a ludicrous concept the benefit of a doubt -- Or anything even slightly approaching an equal footing -- on the basis of a probability of (1.0 - 0.999...)

 

[dafydd]

no, sorry.....theists believe in god....atheists do not.

And on that bombshell ladies and gentlemen.........