The Biblical Realities of Hell

[edge]

I have faith that Paulhoff is real.

No wait, I don't need faith, I have evidence right here.

It always amuses me when people use "faith" like it is a good thing. Blind belief without any need for evidence is never a good thing.

The problem is you think it's totally blind.

 

[tsig]

You got it.
Because what are you going to do?
You can't control your death.
None of us gets out alive...

Why is your death more important than your birth?

 

[Paulhoff]

It says servant?
Where does it say slave?
Don't go back to the O.T.....

SO, you think that any SERVANT that is beaten isn’t a Slave?


The O.T. is part of the bible and the Jesus of the bible said that he was NOT there to get Rid of the old ways and teachings, that he was there only to fulfill them.

The bible and the faiths that have come from it are so unlike science, just for one example in which science says, that Newton’s theory on gravity can be used in most low gravity fields to calculate orbits etc, it also goes on to explain why it can’t be use in high gravity fields and for that the General Relativity Theory should than be used and again it will say why.

You bible has nothing written in the N.T. that says the O.T. has problems and that it can’t be used and/or which parts are not to be used. But again science will point out where it is weak and why, but nowhere is that found in the bible because it is to be accepted has the final word on everything written in it. Also in science, no one is trying to make you believe anything, it just shows what has been learned so far and it gives any testable theories on those things and it is then up to you to understand it and there no threat of punishment for not accepting it and/or not understanding it.

That is what I like about science, it tells you what it has found, how it may work. There is nothing about science that says anything about something that is hasn’t any evidence for, in which you must believe in and follow with the threat of unlimited pain after death if it is not believed in.

Paul

 

[dafydd]

You're talking about mans greed the people who back politicians.
Right wing, left wing, we are all in control of the rich who don’t want change because the oil hasn't run out. Their not done making their money, you think they want it to end?
We don't need oil for fuel and we could do it all from electric.So what's your point?
Faith is dumb, that’s your opinion.
I could say lack of faith is dumb because from my perspective it is.

Please explain the highlighted words. Is having any kind of faith clever? Are Hindus clever because they believe in Krishna and Shiva?

 

[Sun Countess]

How did God take care of those things?
You can ask him later.

No, I'll never be able to ask him later as he's completely imaginary. Thank you for at least having the decency to try not to explain why it's good that god allows so many babies to die.

If everything is true then they aren't dead they are with God.

I guess I was wrong about my last statement. And if "everything is true" I'm assuming you mean from your perspective, and I'm sorry, but that's simply not the case. Also, if my baby died, the last place I would want him or her to be is with your nutjob of a god.

Do you honestly believe that Christians are okay with their babies dying because then they'll be with god? When a Christian parent kills their kids so they can be with god, they're considered insane. Most mainstream Christians don't think their kids would be better off dead and in heaven than they would be alive. Or Christians would all be out there killing their kids before they would risk sending them to hell for all eternity. Christians, like most everybody else, recognize that living is a better option than dying, especially when it happens way too soon.

No one will ever know completely the mind of God and why things are the way they are in this matter universe.

It's true that no one will ever know the mind of god, because he's entirely imaginary. When people "speak" for him, they're just saying what they believe, wish would be true, and then saying that god agrees with them. It's funny though that god always agrees with everybody, no matter how contradictory their statements are. This is why you get some Christians salivating over the prospect of blasphemers and homosexuals being tortured for all eternity, while others see hell as a place of darkness or separation (no torture), and other who think god is totally okay with the gay.

Hell is not being there in the light but being in darkness with all the others.

If I got to pick an imaginary place to visit, I would take hell over heaven any day. The thought of being anywhere near a bunch of fundy freaks heaping praise over their divine trio of no-talent hacks is nauseating. If I want to hear mindless worship, I could go to a Bieber concert.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Quote:
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.



The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

It says servant?
Where does it say slave?

Oh, goody!

You're talking about mans greed the people who back politicians.
Right wing, left wing, we are all in control of the rich who don’t want change because the oil hasn't run out. Their not done making their money, you think they want it to end?

If we're in control of them, why don't we make them stop?

We don't need oil for fuel and we could do it all from electric.

Just curious - what are you going to use to produce the electricity? And store it?

So what's your point?
Faith is dumb, that’s your opinion.
I could say lack of faith is dumb because from my perspective it is.

Faith says, "I believe what I believe no matter what facts anyone shows me. It doesn't matter what's true or not true, what matters is what I believe." This is a dangerous way to live your life, both for yourself and for others on whom you may have influence.

 

[dafydd]

Please respond to post number 624 edge.

 

[JudeBrando]

are you being deliberately obtuse?
i aske you a question about the writings of paul.
are you not going to answer it?
why do christians place as much importance on paul as on jesus.
it almost like it is paulianity rather than christianity.

Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Why is Paul so important to you as an anti-Christian?

I thought we had settled "what hell is" for you.
It's fictional.

Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

It always amuses me when people use "faith" like it is a good thing. Blind belief without any need for evidence is never a good thing.

It always amuses me when people denigrate "faith," like it is a bad thing of blind belief based upon nothing, as if that is a good thing.

Yes, and that's why America's right-wing think it's their god-given right to burn through the world's oil at an alarming pace. Never mind, god will kill more dinosaurs???

Wow... whoa. You mean that to leftists like you, oil is a right-wing religious issue? I hadn't gone that far in my considerations of the issue... but I can see how that could fit in understanding the motivations of the anti-right.

What do you say the Chinese believe about this?

Unless you are a complete solipsist, real=real and fictional=fictional. It doesn't matter whether you or I or anyone else believes something is real or not, it either is or it isn't.

Correct. Edge says yes, you say no, and I say all of us will get there later and will know with absolute and inarguable certainty only then, regardless of anyone's absolute faithful insistence.

...as he's completely imaginary... because he's entirely imaginary... If I got to pick an imaginary place to visit, I would take hell over heaven any day...

But you don't seem liberated, free or at peace in any of this to me, but only resolutely angry and unhappy toward religion/God/Christianity.

 

[Paulhoff]

Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Why is Paul so important to you as an anti-Christian?

Because Paul wrote, so-called Jesus didn't.

Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

But so many think of it as knowledge.

It always amuses me when people denigrate "faith," like it is a bad thing of blind belief based upon nothing, as if that is a good thing.

Not when there are things at have been learned that show that the bible is wrong on so many things.

Correct. Edge says yes, you say no, and I say all of us will get there later and will know with absolute and inarguable certainty only then, regardless of anyone's absolute faithful insistence.

Nothing is learned when one isn't anymore.

But you don't seem liberated, free or at peace in any of this to me, but only resolutely angry and unhappy toward religion/God/Christianity.

So, you can see thru the screen, at is neat, I wish I could, sometimes. So, why are many unhappy with christianity? Haven't you been watching the news lately and seen many people of that religion only know how to lie about things they don't like and use their falth as if it is knowledge.

Paul

 

[Twiler]

Do Christians believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Do you believe that Paul preached Paul or that Paul preached Christ?
Why is Paul so important to you as an anti-Christian?

Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

It always amuses me when people denigrate "faith," like it is a bad thing of blind belief based upon nothing, as if that is a good thing.

Wow... whoa. You mean that to leftists like you, oil is a right-wing religious issue? I hadn't gone that far in my considerations of the issue... but I can see how that could fit in understanding the motivations of the anti-right.

What do you say the Chinese believe about this?

Correct. Edge says yes, you say no, and I say all of us will get there later and will know with absolute and inarguable certainty only then, regardless of anyone's absolute faithful insistence.

But you don't seem liberated, free or at peace in any of this to me, but only resolutely angry and unhappy toward religion/God/Christianity.

What's a leftist?

 

[catsmate]

Why is your death more important than your birth?

Because it will marginally increase average human intelligence?

 

[Sun Countess]

Regardless of how certainly one may think that hell is fiction, the simple, ultimate and undeniable truth is that we cannot absolutely know what is beyond death until we ourselves are beyond death. Certainty either way is belief, it is faith, not knowledge.

The belief that there's anything beyond death is simply wishful thinking. It's nice to think that maybe there's a world full of puppies and rainbows and sunshine beyond this dimension, but there's no evidence. All the evidence points to people simply ceasing to exist.

But you don't seem liberated, free or at peace in any of this to me, but only resolutely angry and unhappy toward religion/God/Christianity.

I'm no angrier at the Christian god than I am at any god. They're all fictional beings. I have some anger towards Christianity because I find their belief system to be one of the more morally repugnant ones (the whole "we're all sinners worthy only of death, and we all need a savior to save us from the just punishment of a righteous god, so yes, please, give me one of those human sacrifices"). So yes, I do find it sickening when anybody thinks that I want to be a part of that club, or that I would choose to spend an eternity with a monster and his worshipping zombies. I don't want Christians to even fathom a miniscule thought that I want an ounce of what they're having. They can keep it for themselves, and they're not going to scare me with some imaginary hell which just happens to be more appealing than the alternative they try to peddle.

 

[Elizabeth I]

But you don't seem liberated, free or at peace in any of this to me, but only resolutely angry and unhappy toward religion/God/Christianity.

No, only at some kinds of Christians, and about the truly horrific things done in the name of Christianity, many of which have never been disavowed by Christians.

 

[dafydd]

No, only at some kinds of Christians, and about the truly horrific things done in the name of Christianity, many of which have never been disavowed by Christians.

If the sky daddy orders it then it's all ok.

 

[edge]

Why is your death more important than your birth?

It's what we do after birth that is important.
I hate sleeping.
Sleep dark, alive good light.

 

[edge]

Please explain the highlighted words. Is having any kind of faith clever? Are Hindus clever because they believe in Krishna and Shiva?

we could do it all from electric.

If we had enough nuclear plants and used every thing new under the sun to get electric power we wouldn't need oil to be turned into gas.

Remember they took away the first really good electric cars.
Who do you supposed did that when the call for them was so great.

All of them where leased and when they ran out they were taken away and people where expecting new leases, they never kept coming out with better newer cars they stopped, they weren’t outright selling them, I wonder why?
They ignored what was sellable and marketable, kind of odd don’t you think?

The hindus know there's a soul, who they call god and by what name is their buisness.
At least they are looking for God and believe in God/Gods.
I have nothing against them and I'll bet that God won't either.

 

[Sun Countess]

The hindus know there's a soul, who they call god and by what name is their buisness.

The Hindus know no such thing. They may believe in some of the same superstitious nonsense that you do, but that doesn't mean it's some sort of truth.

At least they are looking for God and believe in God/Gods.

Do you feel their ridiculous beliefs somehow make yours seem less ridiculous? The Greeks and Romans were looking for gods too, and I hope you recognize that there was no truth in what they found.

I have nothing against them and I'll bet that God won't either.

There you go again, trying to figure out the mind of god again, and finding that he continues to agree with you.

 

[edge]

Oh, goody!



If we're in control of them, why don't we make them stop?



Just curious - what are you going to use to produce the electricity? And store it?



Faith says, "I believe what I believe no matter what facts anyone shows me. It doesn't matter what's true or not true, what matters is what I believe." This is a dangerous way to live your life, both for yourself and for others on whom you may have influence.

S0rry my bad it should have been this:

we are all under control of the rich who don’t want change because the oil hasn't run out.

How about batteries? The Earth is a gaint battery and magnetic field, tap into that and we have all the free electric we need, one of the shuttle missions proved that.

No one believes anything till proof is shown however that may be in personal revelations.
Those will not convince you either because it hasn’t happened to you.

 

[edge]

Because it will marginally increase average human intelligence?

It will.
It does.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

No one believes anything till proof is shown however that may be in personal revelations.
Those will not convince you either because it hasn’t happened to you.

Stop right there. The Christian doctrine of personal revelation and being presented with some reason or evidence that contradicts a previously held belief are two very different things. Assuming an objective reality, any observation can be made by anyone in the vicinity of the phenomenon. This is different than personal revelation, which would best be described as God standing in front of us the whole time although he's had most of us wear blindfolds so we can't see him.