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Subconsciousness and Humanity.

“Master Plan?” That sounds a little wooish if you ask me...it is more simply (as I have said) a natural progression of ‘what consciousness does.’ In relation to the Universe, if the opportunity presents itself to do so, which it has done.


No, you said:

the greater purpose and agenda of Subconsciousess and its relationship with Individual Human Consciousness, and The Collective Human Conscious Reality.


I asked you for evidence that the direction of the human race, assuming there is one, constitutes a purposeful "agenda". You responded:


The evidence is there if you care to know.


I care to know. So, I'm asking you again: What is the evidence that the direction of the species, assuming there is one, constitutes a "greater purpose and agenda"?


Personally, I think it is really stunningly excellent that regardless of the majority of the world’s population giving a toss, the machinery is being built with that future in mind.


So, evidence that few people care about this "agenda" is evidence of the "agenda"?
 
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JoeBently:

Humans speak in a variety of ways.
What I have said in this thread is coherent thought.
You may not be able to understand and thus give me any answer but your reply is something of an answer in itself and simply says that you don’t understand me or the way I am using language – the way I ‘speak’ is not something you personally identify with and need not be confused as being therefore ‘incoherent’.

I will try to adjust as best I am able to understand your particular nature as presented.

AdMan,

I too have no problem with smoking dope but understand your comments were an attempt to suggest that stoned people would better understand what I am saying as long as they were ‘new agers’.

Your personal opinion re ‘the crap I am pushing’ is not to be confused with actually presenting a coherent argument against my speculations.
Therefore I will not confuse your personal opinion about what I am saying as legitimate.

What I am saying is simply taking facts and putting them together as coherently as I am at present able to and presenting speculation as to what is altogether going on.
Speculation as to what is going on has nothing to do with ‘belief’.

Paul W:

I am not ‘taking pills.’ I have on rare occasion sampled them to see what they do, but have no particular interest in using them.
On odd occasions I might take a pain killer or stomach settler, but that is about it in regard to pills.

Do you yourself take pills? If so, do you mind if I inquire as to which type and what for?

Arcade22

There is evidence in my posts and you are mistaking speculation for ‘baseless assertion’ which of course is easy to do if one is not careful.
It is not my “incomprehensibility.” As I understand myself perfectly. It is yours. I will try to adjust accordingly once I learn more about you so that I might present things in a way which may help you to better comprehend what I am saying.

delorde:

Indeed, some individuals cannot say more than ‘yawn’ about even the big things in life. I see this as being ‘whop-de-doish’ so either you are having such a moment or this is your general attitude towards – what is essential a great thing Human Consciousness is in motion towards accomplishing.

Getting off this planet is indeed a huge undertaking which has involved a great number of brains and their accompanying individual personalities and continues to do so.
It really isn’t anything to be yawning at, but I concede that for some personalities such stuff might make them feel sleepy.


tsig:

Anyone who does not agree with me simply does not agree with me. If they say why they don’t, this of course helps the general communications process a great deal, but if they simply spew forth silly name-calling diatribe as their only known means of communicating that they don’t agree with me, then that is not really a sensible, well adjusted, informed or interesting way of trying to get on the same page. It is more reflective of a way of not wanting to.

In relation to you having consciously communed with your subconscious aspect and being informed that it agrees with your conscious aspect that my posts are full of words that mean nothing,

I take that into account – if indeed you are being truthful – that this is a clue that not all individual Subconsciousnesses are on the same page.
I have previously speculated that they are most likely on the same page.

This data might tweak my speculations regarding the nature of one individual Subconsciousness in relation to another individual Subconsciousness.

It may be that not all Subconsciousnesses are able to interact ‘on the same page’ because the aspects of their individual Consciousnesses are not on the same page with each other.

This would then suggest that individual Subconsiounesses cannot get on the same page with each other unless their Conscious aspects agree to get on the same page with other individual Conscious aspects.

If that is the case it would indicate that Subconsciousness does not have absolute influence regarding Consciousness.

I have been told differently by my own interactions with Subconsciousness [through ideomotor processing] and will have to see where I may have misread and misconstrued what Subconsciousness was conveying to me in this regard.

Do you mind sharing the process as to how you talked with your Subconscious aspect and received the answer that you did?
 
Arcade22

There is evidence in my posts and you are mistaking speculation for ‘baseless assertion’ which of course is easy to do if one is not careful.

There was no evidence for a purpose. Either you don't want to post your evidence or you have none. I'm going to wager it's the latter.

It is not my “incomprehensibility.”

Actually it is. Why are you incapable of answering simple questions? Why do you keep posting gibberish and psychobabble?

As I understand myself perfectly. It is yours. I will try to adjust accordingly once I learn more about you so that I might present things in a way which may help you to better comprehend what I am saying.

Considering your pathetic inability to answer simple questions I'm not holding my breath.
 
I asked you for evidence that the direction of the human race, assuming there is one, constitutes a purposeful "agenda". You responded:​



The evidence is there if you care to know.




I care to know. So, I'm asking you again: What is the evidence that the direction of the species, assuming there is one, constitutes a "greater purpose and agenda"?​

Loss Leader, I think I see your confusion.

This thread is not about “the direction of the human race in relation to purposeful agenda.”

That is far more complicated due to the many agenda variables involved. Religious, political, criminal, educational, economical etc agendas are not altogether working towards a specific and united purposeful agenda.

So the direction of the species as a whole is not able to be specified or even that accurately speculated on, although some are very sure that it is not a good direction and will end badly.

That is why I said in the OP:

Suconsciousness is able to work with and through the almost natural self suppression of Consciousness and still reach its great objective in relation to the Universe.

There are preferred paths but Subconsciousness cannot or will not interfere with the personal identity and choice of the Individual Consciousness.

This means that bad things will happen but that even these bad things are a valuable resource for Subconsciousness because they allow for good things to be created counteracting the bad.

Ultimately though, this does not mean that 7 Billion people (and counting) are going to altogether suddenly change the way they work and play together, and that wars will cease and Utopia built.

And also:


Building Utopia is within the realm of Human Possibility and like everything else, the Subconsciousness is quiet able to provide the overall insight on how this can be achieved – at present though the Human condition is still rather fragmented although this too is changing as more and more individuals, groups and corporations learn how to connect their ideas with preservation and the need to nurture the planet (nest) at the fore of their agenda – in the fore of their minds.

Sometimes this is not so obvious to the Individual – because their personal reality does not leave much - if any – room in which to observe the Big Picture, due to their own chosen belief systems and accompanying bias, their urge to cling to notions based on conspiracies and saviours, their commitment to patriotism, gender, race, particular politics and sciences, etc.


I think perhaps you are thinking of the word ‘Agenda’ in negative terms, much the way Conspiracy Theorists tend to also do.

The way I am using the word, is not in a negative connotation nor particularly a positive one, but more in the neutral zone.

It is used to simply signify a plan of action in relation to that specific part of Humanity which is dedicated to the service of preserving and nurturing Consciousness in relation to this Universe, with a vision towards eventually leaving this planet behind.

Now in regard to speculation obviously one cannot do this without clues – the evidential ones especially.

When it comes to the agenda I am speaking about, there are some things which are not so evident but can still be accounted for as being most likely fact.

One example has to do with ruling class and its effect on human direction throughout history. I am specifically speaking about the rulers of ‘the ruling class’.

In some cases the ruling class of tribes/cultures etc simply vanished and along with them, the data they used for the purpose of ruling.
In other case where civilisations crumbled, the ruling class did not necessarily go down with the ship.

One difficult thing in regards to this process is that the data on how to rule and direct large groups of individuals, even with differing agendas – (not only building upon that data through experience but preserving that data) – is if that which was ruled becomes uncontrolled or for some other reason crumbles, then there is a need to move on and set up shop elsewhere and continue...



...One thing that makes this possibly is money. Lots of money.

Sometimes too, the data does get lost, and the ruling class does die away with the civilisations they ruled, but the data can be found by digging it up and learning from it how People lived and ruled over other People.

Importantly, with the advent of written word which then evolved into printed word, the data could be preserved.
As populations grew and developed, the ruling classes of these civilisations became richer and better equipped to withstand disruption to their rule, and should disruption happen where they were forced to flee, they took their riches and data with them and set up shop somewhere else – as they could.

This is brief history on the subject. Much of this process also helped create a monster of sorts, which ruling class were unable to contain and fully control, no matter what the method of manipulation was.
In today’s ‘day and age’ the processes have changed quite dramatically as there are no new frontiers – literally nowhere else to go to set up shop.

These aspects of ruling class have been able to consolidate their interests and redefine their agenda and have the necessary wealth to make it happen.

As to the ‘monster’ created through the process, protecting themselves from that and helping to keep it calm and perhaps even finding ways to educate it to educate itself is also likely part of an agenda but there are some things that no amount of money can buy, and a hand full of individuals, families, groups and corporations cannot change the way 6-7 billion individuals choose to interact and express themselves.

That is all speculation but it is based upon good logic.

But it is not something anyone can provide actual evidence about.

Nonetheless, it can be speculated that pushes toward technological advancement and the Agenda to find a way to move off this planet eventually, will most likely be supported and encouraged by that which has the power and foresight and understanding and commitment to do so and to see it through.

All obviously or subtlety propelled by Human Subconsciousness, depending on ones own understanding of such processes.
 
It is used to simply signify a plan of action in relation to that specific part of Humanity which is dedicated to the service of preserving and nurturing Consciousness in relation to this Universe, with a vision towards eventually leaving this planet behind.


What evidence do you have that the course of human evolution is following a "plan of action"?



That is all speculation but it is based upon good logic. But it is not something anyone can provide actual evidence about.


Are you saying you have no evidence that the human trajectory is part of some "plan of action"?

What logic do you consider to be good? As near as I can tell, you're just affirming the consequent.
 
Well this really only highlights the bias. We have seen this already in other threads.

“What is Spirituality?”
“What is Prayer?”
“What is Magic?”
“What is Childish Fantasy?”

In all cases so far, no consensus has been reached.
then why don't you tell us your definition.
In relation to this thread OP, the viewpoint is not about the individual and their personal bias on “what is__________” – the focus is on the overall view in relation to Susbconsciousness through Human History and present day and future focus, all of which are in evidence.
Where, how, what?
That evidence produces a clear indicative picture of where Suconsciousness is taking itself using the Human Form as a stepping stone.
Nice poetry, where is the evidence?
This can even be taken to a probable ‘end game’ in relation to all subconsciousness in the Galaxy and Universe which has similar opportunity to use biological form to create for itself machine form.
Nice speculation, tell us another story.
It can be argued now that this will never happen, but regardless of whether it can or cannot, Subconsciousness is making a go at it.
Evidence?
There is far and wide enough evidence to support this as actually happening – a progress in the making, with a particular purpose and reason in mind.

except you don't have any evidence that you are presenting, just asserting. And rationalizing the poorly defined and intangible concept doesn't help at all.
 
Yet, it appears necessary otherwise everything falls down without it. That is why it is used as such. Science is not studying a metaphor but a real thing.
data and evidence lacking in your post.
I say it certainly does exist as more than a metaphor, but is simply not at all well understood very well by Consciousness.
data and evidence lacking in your post.
I know this because it can be communicated with and give account of itself anyway.
exactly where and how with what?
 
Human History - The Present, these things show clearly where the focus to the future is headed, based upon what is actually being built - to, at the very least -attempt making a go at getting there.
progressivism and determinism
Fallacies, undemonstrated by any evidence.
Science is at the forefront of this push toward that particular future, which involves creating machinery which can allow Subconsciousness to extend itself beyond the boarders of this Planet, or even the solar system.

Is it there yet?

No...it is heading there...with no foreseeable obstacles in the way. One major obstacle is the human form itself, because it is really not able to survive the rigors of interstellar space and possibly may never be able to...certainly not without the aid of machinery.

Machinery comes from Natural resource + Subconscious intelligence + Conscious support + the Human Form which is able to actually create the machinery...without which of course, the brain alone cannot accomplish.

Those are the main 'dots'.
No dots just some fuzzy allusions.
 
What evidence do you have that the course of human evolution is following a "plan of action"?

Where do you get that from the quote you used?

It is used to simply signify a plan of action in relation to that specific part of Humanity which is dedicated to the service of preserving and nurturing Consciousness in relation to this Universe, with a vision towards eventually leaving this planet behind.
 
Are you saying you have no evidence that the human trajectory is part of some "plan of action"?

I am saying:


It can be speculated that pushes toward technological advancement and the Agenda to find a way to move off this planet eventually, will most likely be supported and encouraged by that which has the power and foresight and understanding and commitment to do so and to see it through.

I do not understand your use of the term 'human trajectory' here...can you explain please?

What logic do you consider to be good?

As opposed to say 'what is bad logic?'

What I am saying is that 'good' logic doesn't vilify. What I am speculating in regard to the Agenda, is that it is not as a CTer speculates - that the Agenda itself is not borne of some 'evil' plan involving a handful of individuals bent on subjugating billions of individuals.
 
Where is the evidence?

Can you be specific Dancing Dave?

What specific evidence do you require regarding this speculation?


There seems little point in linking the vast amounts of data available on the internet which support the projected direction of scientific exploration in relation to Human Consciousness.

Perhaps the problem is in how the evidence is deciphered by the individual?

Do you think that - for example, the work being done in relation to robotics has no Agenda and is simply a reflex of a mindless thing?
 
I am saying:
It can be speculated that pushes toward technological advancement and the Agenda to find a way to move off this planet eventually, will most likely be supported and encouraged by that which has the power and foresight and understanding and commitment to do so and to see it through.


What evidence are you basing this speculation on?
 
So says your own bias AdMan, but it is quite plausible speculation.

You think for instance that religion is simply an innocent organisation with an integral agenda with no interest in vilifying or demonizing anything which might take away its adherents?

You think that the evolution of Human Consciousness has not been infected by combating institutions which seek to control and influence it?

Is your life that insulated that anything outside your own bias must then have to be merely something to respond to with name-calling as if that is some kind of legitimate expression which proves my speculation incorrect?


How about making the effort to communicate with that part of yourself called the Subconsciousness in a genuine respectful manner and from that point seeing just what you might get from the ongoing experience?

You have yet to define 'subconsciousness' or show any data or evidence for it.

So the bias is all yours.
 
Can you be specific Dancing Dave?

What specific evidence do you require regarding this speculation?


There seems little point in linking the vast amounts of data available on the internet which support the projected direction of scientific exploration in relation to Human Consciousness.

Perhaps the problem is in how the evidence is deciphered by the individual?

Do you think that - for example, the work being done in relation to robotics has no Agenda and is simply a reflex of a mindless thing?

There is no evidence for an agenda , purpose, subconsciousness or any of teh many things I asked for evidence of.

Changing the topic would however be you course if your wish to engage in rhetoric.

Where is the evidence for:
-the subconscious
-the purpose and/or direction of the subconscious
-the agenda of the subconscious.

i asked you for specific evidence for specific statements of yours, I suggest you rereading your sentences and provide the evidence to support your statements, wherein I asked for your evidence.

So far empty rhetoric is all you have.
 
delorde:

Indeed, some individuals cannot say more than ‘yawn’ about even the big things in life.
Some individuals don't have the simple courtesy to correctly name the person they're addressing.

I see this as being ‘whop-de-doish’ so either you are having such a moment or this is your general attitude towards – what is essential a great thing Human Consciousness is in motion towards accomplishing.
I notice you try to tell me what I think rather than address my comment.

I'll clarify: in what way is what you've been describing more than, "humans are a curious and exploratory species and off-planet exploration seems a natural extension of this"?

It really isn’t anything to be yawning at, but I concede that for some personalities such stuff might make them feel sleepy.
The yawn was for your (apparently) wrapping a simple and obvious statement of human nature (as above) in pages of soporifically vague and opaque waffle.

Present something more original and I might come round.
 
I am saying:
It can be speculated that pushes toward technological advancement and the Agenda to find a way to move off this planet eventually, will most likely be supported and encouraged by that which has the power and foresight and understanding and commitment to do so and to see it through.


What evidence are you basing this speculation on?

Lets take a tiny tangent here:

It is easy enough to speculate on evidence available to whoever wants to find it.

Unless you are saying that there are no ruling class mega-rich individuals, families, corporations etc which have survived and prospered over various periods of time, then it can be speculated that an unknown number of these are involved in some form of support for future Agenda which would naturally include support for nurturing the fact of Human Consciousness and investing in ways that look the most promising in achieving this thing.

If you can agree with this speculation as being possible, you would also understand how the evidence for such speculation would be extremely hard to obtain, otherwise you would either find it yourself or provide advise on how this information might be obtained.


If you cannot agree that this speculation is at all possible it would have to be because of something else other than that you have seen no evidence to say that these people exist and are involved in any way with supporting the sciences which are developing instrumentation designed to assist Consciousness into surviving and prospering exploring, utilising and populating the Galaxy.

The one aspect can be seen, the other – not so easily, but the other certainly exists, so what do you think they are doing with their wealth and social positions?
 
I have defined Subconsciousness.

There is data and evidence for it, as defined by scientists.


What is that data and evidence?

Some has been posted already in this thread by JasonR - other evidence can be obtained on the internet.

Edit: Not so - JasonR posted his evidence in "The Power of Prayer Thread." - my bad.
 
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