Study quashes vaccine anxiety

TobiasTheCommie said:
no
Click to expand...
Of course it wont shut the anti-vaxers up, the study was carried out by evil scientists, who spend all their time thinking up new ways to poison children so that they can sell them more unnecessary drugs, we we all know that a few natural remedies are sufficient to keep everyone alive well into their third centuries. After they have finished thinking up new ways to poison children, they spend their time eating kittens.

thanks for posting this Flange Desire, it is useful to have yet more information on the safety of vaccines, but it won't do much for most of the anti-vaxers, because you can't use reason to dissuade someone from an opinion which they did not arrive at through reason in the first place. Anti-vaxers already "know" that everything bad in the world is caused by vaccines, so any study which shows that this is not the case must be a lie.
 
BronzeDog said:
But they have to work up an appetite by kicking puppies.
Click to expand...
Have you no shame man!
Kicking puppies is an after dinner activity in all civilized nations. I bet you're the sort of rum fellow who would pass the port to the right!
 
Okay, I'll make a prediction.

1.The study mentions 80%, so that leaves 20% caused by vaccination (instead of other causes).
2. It also "proves" predisposition to a condition "triggered by vaccination" (let's just ignore the fever thing, cuz we're gonna focus on vaccines).

Antivaxxers will say that the kids would have been spared if they never got a fever (vaccination) and that 20% are fully because of the vaccination.

Now I'll run off to some antivax sites...

Hmm, some other stuff I missed, being that I lack the total paranoia that these folks have on the subject...
What's causing this "genetic mutation" in the first place? Mothers who are vaxed, perhaps???
Click to expand...

But I was on the mark with this:

the vaccines are triggering it.....if they don't have the vaccine is it still triggered in EVERYONE that has it? I am thinking not.
Click to expand...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=441365

They ignore the facts in the study of course, that say the children with the genes DO still get the trigger by a fever...

From the study:
The first symptom is one long seizure, usually triggered by a fever
...Like fevers, vaccinations can trigger the first seizure but they do not cause the condition. The genetic mutation is to blame, the study shows.
Click to expand...

Kids get fevers, whether they get vaccinated or not. Vaccination causes fevers (by triggering an immune response-use Tylenol people). The kids with the genetics get the disease, whether they get vaccinated or not.
 
Last edited:
Eos of the Eons said:
Okay, I'll make a prediction.

1.The study mentions 80%, so that leaves 20% caused by vaccination (instead of other causes).

2. It also "proves" predisposition to a condition "triggered by vaccination" (let's just ignore the fever thing, cuz we're gonna focus on vaccines).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=441365
Click to expand...

Looks like you were spot on, Eos.
The 3rd post in the thread tells us all we need to know about these kooks' critical thinking abilities.....
What's causing this "genetic mutation" in the first place? Mothers who are vaxed, perhaps???
Click to expand...
:D
 
Still, they do have a bit of a point. Is there any evidence that children with the mutation who are not vaccinated invariably develop clinical disease regardless? As I read it, this is an assumption, not somehting they tested.

Rolfe.
 
it was now clear that those who developed the syndrome soon after immunisations would have been affected at some stage regardless
Click to expand...

They get the syndrome before immunisation, long afterwards, and irregardless of. The usual trigger is fever. Immunisations can cause fevers, but the kids get fevers no matter what. The onset is first year, no matter what. It's the same as saying MMR causes autism. You are going to get kids showing symptoms some time after immunisation, especially since kids get their shots once every x number of months in their first year of life. The only way to stop the coincidence is to stop giving vaccines in the first year of life. You'll see the same incidence of Dravet's and Autism, but you'll also see increased complications and deaths due to vaccine preventable diseases.

The genetics cause the syndrome.

Severe myoclonic epilepsy begins during the first year of life...
...the first seizure appears in association with fever
Click to expand...
http://www.ilae-epilepsy.org/ctf/dravet.html

If they have the genes, they will get Dravet's. Everyone with Dravet's genes gets Dravet's syndrome.

Everyone with the extra set of chromosomes associated with Trisomy 21 gets Down's Syndrome. The mutation causes the syndrome. There's no stopping the genes from causing the problems when they are expressed.
 
I will try and see the article if I can get hold of the journal.

Meanwhile, here is something for those at mother**.com to really get worked up about - a proposal that babies could all be genetically manipulated to enable them to be immunised at birth.
:eek:
 
Deetee said:
Looks like you were spot on, Eos.
The 3rd post in the thread tells us all we need to know about these kooks' critical thinking abilities.....
:D
Click to expand...

That's just astonishingly ignorant. I hadn't gone to read much of the antivax propaganda, but that's just appallingly ignorant, dishonest, and frankly anti-knowledge...

Why do I suspect that neither I nor mom would be appreciated on that board?
 
Last edited:
Eos of the Eons said:
They get the syndrome before immunisation, long afterwards, and [ir]regardless of....

http://www.ilae-epilepsy.org/ctf/dravet.html

If they have the genes, they will get Dravet's. Everyone with Dravet's genes gets Dravet's syndrome. [my bold]

Everyone with the extra set of chromosomes associated with Trisomy 21 gets Down's Syndrome. The mutation causes the syndrome. There's no stopping the genes from causing the problems when they are expressed.
Click to expand...
Eos, I'm not saying your statement is wrong, but I still haven't seen the evidence. I can't find a statement that all those with the genes get the syndrome on that link, indeed at that point they seem only to be saying that the cause is probably genetic.

It is true that everyone with trisomy 21 is clinical Down's Syndrome, but that doesn't prove the same will be true for a different genetic condition. There are many conditions that have what I think is called incomplete expression or incomplete penetrance, in which only a proportion of individuals with the genes show the clinical disease.

If it is indeed that case that every individual with the Dravet's genetic makeup sooner or later manifests the clinical disease, then indeed the article is correct that vaccination is at most of peripheral significance. However, until we know that for sure, we cannot refute the antivax assertion that avoiding vaccination might avoid the clinical disease appearing.

Rolfe.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
...


http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=441365

...
Click to expand...

Those mothers are delibrately giving their kids mumps!

:eek:

I really don't have any words for this. I was unfortunate enough to have severe mumps as a child. I think it may have caused permanent developmental damage...of course I can only speculate if I would have been a weak and sickly child without the mumps.

Okay, I'm still speechless. They're abominable, evil, vile people. Their kids should be taken away and they should be locked up.

Um, am I overreacting?:confused:
 
I gave up arguing about vaccines online when my repeated explanations of why, during an outbreak, there will almost always be more infected vaccinated people than infected unvaccinated people, was completely ignored in favour of repeated statements of '70% of the people who got sick were vaccinated! Clearly the vaccine doesn't even work anyway'! There's some of that happening with this mumps epidemic, too, where statements from the health department like '60% of the people who have the mumps were vacccinated' has been transmuted into '60% of vaccinated people got the mumps OMG the VACCINE DOESN'T EVEN WORK OMG OMG!'.

Some people are completely immune to facts and logic.
 
dissonance said:
I gave up arguing about vaccines online when my repeated explanations of why, during an outbreak, there will almost always be more infected vaccinated people than infected unvaccinated people, was completely ignored in favour of repeated statements of '70% of the people who got sick were vaccinated! Clearly the vaccine doesn't even work anyway'! There's some of that happening with this mumps epidemic, too, where statements from the health department like '60% of the people who have the mumps were vacccinated' has been transmuted into '60% of vaccinated people got the mumps OMG the VACCINE DOESN'T EVEN WORK OMG OMG!'.

Some people are completely immune to facts and logic.
Click to expand...
:grouphug:

:rub:
 
Rolfe said:
If it is indeed that case that every individual with the Dravet's genetic makeup sooner or later manifests the clinical disease, then indeed the article is correct that vaccination is at most of peripheral significance. However, until we know that for sure, we cannot refute the antivax assertion that avoiding vaccination might avoid the clinical disease appearing.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Every bit I've read on it states that everyone with the genes gets the disease within the first year. The presence of the genes and their "place" point to the inevitable unfortunate epileptic condition.

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/126/3/513

There is not a single case of a person with the mutations that didn't get the disease within the first year.

Many people with the type of mutation that results in Dravet's also have a strong family history with epilepsy in general. The combinations that results in Dravet's is especially debilitating.

The history and genetics leave no doubt in my mind that the children affected would still be affected severely no matter how mild the fever nor the cause of the fever.

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:16458823

Still, antivaxxers really won't care. Any little thing to cling to is good enough for them to slam prevention.
 
Last edited:
Eosine, did the researchers even ask if the afflicted children developed fevers after being vaccinated?
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Every bit I've read on it states that everyone with the genes gets the disease within the first year. The presence of the genes and their "place" point to the inevitable unfortunate epileptic condition.

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/126/3/513

There is not a single case of a person with the mutations that didn't get the disease within the first year.
Click to expand...
That's a high-powered article and it's quite difficult to follow. I can't find anything in it that supports your statement that "There is not a single case of a person with the mutations that didn't get the disease within the first year." I don't see any examination of clinically well children for the presence of the relevant mutation(s).

Could you quote the passage from the article that you're relying on for that statement?

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here, because we can't counter the antivaxers' points if we don't have the evidence at our fingertips.

Rolfe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom