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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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It's on his page at ISU. Get permission to repost if he answers so we can all see what he says, okay?
Naturally.
And some of you act like you're a bunch of kids. I realize some of the insults are quite clever and show great comedic talent, but they get quite annoying after about 20 minutes. Last time Jeff looked, I doubt he stayed that long.
Could you specify 'some of you'? Would you be excluding yourself?
I'd want to retract the asparagus.
Why? What does it have to do with Chilcutt? I think I've shown restraint and entertained Sweaty's delusions more than he deserves. That's my perception. An opinion, if you will. I don't expect you to share it but I would ask you to recognize that it's unrelated to you.
It's okay if he sees tube's "condomhead" post, then? Maybe a new thread would be in order.

What makes you think he carries a gun these days?
Lu, you have a sense of humour, I know that. Why pretend you don't?
 
Whatever that may mean.
Meh, it's just me but this is why even with the members I find the most ridiculous such as Lyndon or Sweaty I put no one on ignore. Whatever bile they spew it's my choice to disregard it or not. Yet even inadvertantly they're not beyond illustrating a point. If you didn't have Greg among others on ignore you wouldn't have been confused.
 
Meh, it's just me but this is why even with the members I find the most ridiculous such as Lyndon or Sweaty I put no one on ignore. Whatever bile they spew it's my choice to disregard it or not. Yet even inadvertantly they're not beyond illustrating a point. If you didn't have Greg among others on ignore you wouldn't have been confused.

Only Greg and Ray are on ignore here. Neither one is filtered on BFF. I simply don't have time to wade through Greg's continuing insults and repetitive points to see if he's come up with anything new. Remember, he was one of the first I ran into on this board, and it's probably my fault he joined BFF. I'd had enough of him well over a year ago, so don't think this was any hasty decision.

I was looking forward to an intelligent discussion with Ray on Daegling's book, until he implied I'd debate from emotion during what seemed to be an emotional outburst from him. It wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't already posted the link to his needling of Rick some time ago (I still have it saved), and I think the odor of Rick's poo is entirely off topic.

I pointed out things I found absurd in the book way back in a discussion with The Odd Emporer (who even tended to agree) when I first joined JREF. I was ready to go through it all again, and even got the book on an interlibrary loan. Then all hell broke loose because Ray thinks I didn't call the pro side enough on name-calling, or something. I'm not a moderator, but I have stepped in, only to get in trouble with a couple of BFF moderators because of it. Breaking it up is not my job.

If he would care to apologize, I'll unfilter him.

I've filtered no one on BFF so far, but only because there were so many contenders there for awhile I couldn't decide who should be first. I've only filtered three people here, and one I unfiltered when he stopped mocking and settled down to more honest debate.

I'm not confused and I can get the gist of that convoluted post without having to unfilter Greg.

As for SY and Lyndon, both happen to be cyber friends off the boards. We've exchanged some interesting material, recommended books and DVDs and been supportive each other through troubled times. I don't like seeing them mocked and attacked by anyone, although both seem able to give as good as they get.

As to the bunch of kids on this board, there are too many to name. I'd look up the threads, but I'm busy with something else.

I am way too old to be considered a kid, so, yes, I exclude myself.
 
kitakaze wrote:
He incessantly insists that he be engaged in is profoundly fallacious reasoning to produce a third option to his warped conclusions
I INSIST...yes, folks...INSIST that Ray contribute to the analysis of Joyce's report and phone call to me, by giving us another probable explanation for both!

Actually....I'm just kidding. Relax, Ray...you don't have to contribute if you don't want to. :)
I'm content with the fact that you're full of hot air. :D

Just 1 question for you, bub...why did you say this........
RayG wrote:
Second, I can certainly think of a few explanations that might be possible. (without a whole lot of effort too)
If you are truly unable to come up with any other possible explanations, I can give you some hints.
kitakaze wrote:
1) Joyce really saw bigfoot- improbable due to a lack of supporting evidence for such a creature.

2) Joyce lied- far more probable. If she willfully invented the story there are any number of reasons to do so, not all of them necessarily malicious.
Despite the "high probability" of her lying...and the "multiple reasons" for her lying.....the skeptics cannot provide ONE reason...and support it with a logical argument.
It's easy to say that Joyce most likely called me just to lie to me, and decieve me into thinking she saw a Bigfoot....but it's quite another to support that claim with logical reasoning.

This is shown quite nicely by the absence of ANY attempt by a skeptic to do so.

The question is...why is it far more probable that she lied than she simply told me the truth?

When you first spoke with Joyce, did you ask if it might be possible to speak with her daughter about the event?
No. I was like soooooooooo impressed by what Joyce had to say...and HOW she said it...and the fact that she took time out of her day to call me, a total stranger, long-distance....that I had no interest in talking to her daughter about it....at that time.
But I wouldn't mind talking to her. I also would consider asking them both to take lie-detector tests....and maybe a swig of truth serum...just to be SURE we're getting the twooth. :p

In the meantime...I'm waiting for a skeptic to come-up with an alternate likely explanation for Joyce's report and her subsequent long-distance enthusiastic phone call to a total stranger.

Go ahead, Ray.........we're waiting...
 
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LAL wrote:
I simply don't have time to wade through Greg's continuing insults and repetitive points to see if he's come up with anything new.
I can summarize most of Greg's posts from the past few years, for everyone....

"I don't believe...and you can't make me!"

"We don't know that for sure."

"There is no evidence for Bigfoot." (See my signature line for the complete quote.)

And the ever-present insinuation......

"Afraid....are we?" ;)

Thanks Greg....the WORLD is indebted to you for your help with the Bigfoot mystery!
 
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As for SY and Lyndon, both happen to be cyber friends off the boards. We've exchanged some interesting material, recommended books and DVDs and been supportive each other through troubled times. I don't like seeing them mocked and attacked by anyone, although both seem able to give as good as they get.

As to the bunch of kids on this board, there are too many to name. I'd look up the threads, but I'm busy with something else.

I am way too old to be considered a kid, so, yes, I exclude myself.
Your friendship is appreciable and your solidarity in light of disparate views of the nature of the bigfoot phenomenom is commendable. I don't expect advocating the existence of bigfoot, emulating your avatar and signature, and never disagreeing with you would garner me any brownie points with you. I do expect that anyone who unwaveringly, unobjectively advocates bigfoot evidence will perceive 'troubled times' given that their beliefs are not commensurate with their evidence. I also consider seriously engaging your arguments more important than having a 'buddy'.

Quite expected is that you dramatically deem Sweaty and Lyndon to be mocked and attacked apparently without provocation. Equally expected is that they don't have the fortitude to endure the response to the crap they let fly. There is a very specific reason why I appreciate your and Huntster's input and apparently the same pragmatism escapes you as does the underlying sentiment. Believing bigfoot exists does not make you an idiot as far as I'm concerned but perpetually refusing to realistically acknowledge it might not does.
 
You know, Kevin, if you put a pat of butter on your head people might be more interested in you.
Despite the "high probability" of her lying...
'Far mor probable' than a real bigfoot, salad boy.
Despite the "high probability" of her lying...and the "multiple reasons" for her lying.....
Again, 'far more probable' than a real bigfoot and 'any number of' as opposed to 'multiple' reasons for her lying. Would you like some Palmolive and a box of Kleenex for your expected and predicted semantic spank-fest?

Didn't care to acknowledge 3 and 4, hey? Maybe you can answer the rest of the questions as embarrassingly as you did the one concerning speaking with a second claimed witness. Give it a swipe Kevin, asparagus can flower, too.

It's ok, at least two other people won't think you've had your butt completely handed to you.
 
LAL wrote:
As for SY and Lyndon, both happen to be cyber friends off the boards. We've exchanged some interesting material, recommended books and DVDs and been supportive each other through troubled times.
We Three Friends...from BFF are....:D

I don't like seeing them mocked and attacked by anyone, although both seem able to give as good as they get.
I don't have a real problem with being mocked and attacked...other than a shortage of time to respond to some of it.
That kind of posting simply shows a deficit in actual substance, regarding the subject at hand.

A BEAUTIFUL example was over on the BFF...with Blackdog and JimF.
You remember it well, Lu....it had to do with the (unrefutable) point I made about "unreported sightings".
The two of them went ballisitic and hurled insults at me like there was no tomorrow. :covereyes

What did I do? I chuckled...and said to myself...
"Gee whiz...I made a pretty strong point." :) I did well.
 
kitakaze wrote:
Didn't care to acknowledge 3 and 4, hey?
I'm leaving right now to visit my mother in the rehab hospital. She suffered a major stroke last June.
You have NO clue as to what you're talking about, kitakaze.

I'll respond to those later.

You know, Kevin, if you put a pat of butter on your head people might be more interested in you.
Thanks for the insult. :)
 
No. I was like soooooooooo impressed by what Joyce had to say...and HOW she said it...and the fact that she took time out of her day to call me, a total stranger, long-distance....that I had no interest in talking to her daughter about it....at that time.
But I wouldn't mind talking to her. I also would consider asking them both to take lie-detector tests....and maybe a swig of truth serum...just to be SURE we're getting the twooth. :p
Many may not know this but when deflection and diversion prove unsuccessful asparagus logic mystifyingly dictates self-directed sarcasm as a cure all for unexpected failures of wit.
 
I don't have a real problem with being mocked...
Or mocking. Season Premiere!
A BEAUTIFUL example was over on the BFF...with Blackdog and JimF.
You remember it well, Lu....it had to do with the (unrefutable) point I made about "unreported sightings".
The two of them went ballisitic and hurled insults at me like there was no tomorrow.

What did I do? I chuckled...and said to myself...
"Gee whiz...I made a pretty strong point." I did well.
:dqueen Tissue, Miss Hepburn?
 
kitakaze wrote:

I'm leaving right now to visit my mother in the rehab hospital. She suffered a major stroke last June.
You made a point of sharing this so obviously we'll call it 'heated debate mode off'. Condolences and best wishes for your mother's recovery.
 
I do expect that anyone who unwaveringly, unobjectively advocates bigfoot evidence will perceive 'troubled times' given that their beliefs are not commensurate with their evidence.

The "troubled times" had nothing to do with BF evidence, as Kevin has just "dramatically" told you. You assumed too much.

Quite expected is that you dramatically deem Sweaty and Lyndon to be mocked and attacked apparently without provocation.

Especially since the same thing happened to me. I am unabashedly biased on that score. A seasoned member once explained that "baiting" is par for the course around here. I've been much more aware of those tasty-looking flies ever since.

Equally expected is that they don't have the fortitude to endure the response to the crap they let fly.

Oh, they do, but I find it distracting, counterproductive and boring. Some good posters have quit the board because of those kinds of responses. That's the forum's loss, as I see it.

There is a very specific reason why I appreciate your and Huntster's input

Thank you. Stop right there.

I went through a period of thinking Krantz and Green might be lying after reading their books, especially since it seemed nothing more had happened in the county since the events of 1969. Turns out I just didn't know about it. (I've said all this before, BTW.) As I was moving, I had the opportunity to talk with Peter Byrne and an elderly couple with unpublished photos taken on their Oregon farm..

After I moved to NC I thought I'd left all that behind. It wasn't until I finally got on the Internet that my interest was peaked again during discussions on AOL boards ("People who believe in Bigfoot believe in UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster" sort of thing). I was debating evolution vs. creationism and ended up in a filter war with other evolutionists over the "Bigfoot issue".

The Wallace family "exposé" even made the local news out here and that really got me Googling, especially after I was nearly hooted out of my own living room by someone who believes in Noah's Ark, but thinks BF is a "fairy tale".

I found out John Green was by no means dead, and things snowballed from there.

Now, to get back on topic, one thing that struck me about DYs challenge, was that I was expecting to see fakes. I thought the ichnologist was going to produce fakes so good no one would be able to detect them. Then he used the word "obvious", so, in between bouts of coughing, I assumed the fakes would look obvious. So with this preconception in mind, I set out to determine how the fakes were faked. The heels were a bit of a problem, because they looked real, but, hey, how about some Dr. Scholl's gel insoles? The toes were "obviously" carved out by fingers in the first photo, and a poor job it was, too. I didn't even think about slippage. I then outsmarted myself even further by using DYs criteria, as best I could remember without looking it up, and the sharp edges clearly established the real prints were fake.

So, what I learned was that those who look for fakery will see fakery and those who look for authenticity will find that too, even in the same features. Huntster was absolutely correct. And that's one reason I'm trying to give some background on some of these finds.

Now, while I'm waiting for a retraction and an apology from DY, who will undoubtedly find the proper source for that photo any time now, let me post a gorilla foot with dermal ridges that look just like the "desication ridges" on tube's test cast:

post-958-1146645306_thumb.jpg


http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=14781&hl=gorilla+feet

The lesions are some kind of jungle rot.
 
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You made a point of sharing this so obviously we'll call it 'heated debate mode off'. Condolences and best wishes for your mother's recovery.

Good job. Maybe it could be left off. That might prevent me from having a major stroke.
 
kitakaze wrote:
You made a point of sharing this so obviously we'll call it 'heated debate mode off'. Condolences and best wishes for your mother's recovery.
Thank you kitakaze...it's appreciated. :)

I'm not in a "heated" debate with anyone, though. Just a debate.
 
These are some stills from Jeff Meldrum's presentation at WCS 2003. Top are chimpanzee foot bones with the relevant joints identified, next is a chimpanzee print showing a pressure disc. Third down is a print from the Laetoli trackway showing a possible pressure ridge.

The overlay is a reconstruction by Dr. White and Gen Suwa. It's interesting to note that when Dr. Johanson and Dr. White were arguing Australopithecus afarensis was a human ancestor, they were the radical young Turks pitted against the scientific establishment. Researchers of the time tended to play up the human similarites in the Laetoli trackway and downplay the differences.
 

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These are some photos of the Bluff Creek trackway taken by Lyle Laverty the day after the filming of the PGF. Note the cracks in the pressure ridge in the top photo indicating the clayey sand was pushed backwards rather than being rocked over by a fake foot.
 

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You find your blood pressure getting high you what you do? That's right, read Meldrum.;)

Actually, it tends to be low rather than high. Good debate energizes me; flame wars don't. My bedtime reading right now is Natural History Magazine, and I'm about to delve into a book on space I purchased recently.

Meldrum's one of my referrences and I finally got to check out what he actually does say about a non-opposed thumb. Underdeveloped thelnar muscles argue against a precision grip, as he points out on pg. 109.

Looks like we have another reporter error in the box. Thanks to Correa for drawing my attention to this.

He refers to "ape hand" in humans where the thelnar muscles atrophy due to injury. I have that on my right hand due to losing 3 cm of the median nerve secondary to a gunshot wound. I still have a precision grip, but without the strength it once had.

Maybe I have PTSD when it comes to message boards. :D

Incidently, a muddy sasquatch print left on a white house in Fort Bragg, Ca., in 1962 was clear enough to show fingerprints. There were no whorls. This matches the traces on the Marx hand cast from Washington, the first cast noted to have dermal ridges.

They're not monkeys. ;)
 
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