Should Homeopathy be illegal?

Lets go again from a different angle. This is from me looking outwards at what you say.

You lot say homeopathy doesnt work and to ignore it basically? Yes or No

There isnt any proof it works scientifically or any that satisfies your indivdual requirements. Yes or No

As I said I believe it does in certain cases, so in essence what you are saying is I cannot believe it does and be a sheep, as scientifc tests have not been preformed and any that had concluded the remedies selected proved they had nothing in them? Yes or No

So as I am taking a homeopathic healing agent that helps me get through the day relatively in peace hypothetically I am to stop using it because my beliefs mean diddly squat? Yes or No

So what you are really saying is that I have to suffer as with any other user of homeopathy when modern medicines is no longer any help to us and if I/we take it despite not believing it works I/we contradict myself/ourselves? Yes or No

Arent you playing god with my/others life/lives by saying that. Telling us what we can take because science knows best and not what we find helps us lead normal lives?
 
xouper said:
Perhaps you haven't noticed that several people (including myself) have already tried that without success. Maybe you could give it a try and let me know how it goes.
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You have:confused: so far all I have seen is numbers confirming dilution which I already agreed on, ordering me to confirm my own personal view that I gathered by reading all available data at the time I looked into it, All I did was look up relevent infoyes alot of it is duplicated) on the net, read books(the docotr gave me) talk to homeopaths and some of the people it had helped thenI made up my mind I tried it it got me though at that time instead of me slicing my wrists which was a very viable option at that time. Now you expect me to produce scientific data to pander you with. All I have is availble on the internet and is what I have said all along, which you ignored because the fighting was what youwanted not the information.(to all as well)

Then you have the audacity to say i'm stupid and not qualifed to speak. I have the experience of it that speak volumes. Any of you tried it????
If no what makes you so right and to trivalise my experience of it and what I know about it.
I agreed witha lot of what you said you ignored it, its my opinon and several other users, it helps, who are you to say we have to suffer our own choices to belive in something?
 
radiating-sunflower said:
Lets go again from a different angle. This is from me looking outwards at what you say.

You lot say homeopathy doesnt work and to ignore it basically? Yes or No
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Basically we say it works as well as chemically identical substances.

There isnt any proof it works scientifically or any that satisfies your indivdual requirements. Yes or No
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There is no proof it works better than any placebo. (placebos work very well for certain ailments)

As I said I believe it does in certain cases, so in essence what you are saying is I cannot believe it does and be a sheep, as scientifc tests have not been preformed and any that had concluded the remedies selected proved they had nothing in them? Yes or No
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You can believe what you want. But Homeopaths and scientists agree there is no ‘active’ substance in some homeopathic cures. The difference is that homeopaths claim the water remembers something being there and cures as if it still was there. No proper test has confirmed this.

So as I am taking a homeopathic healing agent that helps me get through the day relatively in peace hypothetically I am to stop using it because my beliefs mean diddly squat? Yes or No
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If it works for you take it. What we say is that (providing the agent has no active elements in it) you are benefiting from the placebo effect. The agent is not remembering what was there and giving you peace.


So what you are really saying is that I have to suffer as with any other user of homeopathy when modern medicines is no longer any help to us? Yes or No
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You can take what you want but that does not mean homeopathy works

Arent you playing god with my life by saying that?
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No
 
radiating-sunflower said:
Then you have the audacity to say i'm stupid and not qualifed to speak. I have the experience of it that speak volumes. Any of you tried it???? If no what makes you so right and to trivalise my experience of it and what I know about it.
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I don't agree with your opinions. Nonetheless, I apologize for being rude.
 
radiating-sunflower said:
didnt say I didnt understand I said I dont do numbers or maths, I hate it.

I dont make the medicine up, so the numbers mean diddly squat to me. In other words I am not interested in number just the what it does or doesnt do.
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Butthead: I, like, hate numbers.
Beavis: Yeah, there's, like, too many of 'em and stuff!
 
radiating-sunflower said:

no to make 30x its 30 tubes and each tube is made twice not its made each tube 30 times that is wrong, not what I read in front of me. and put up.
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I can't quite make out what you're talking about- but you seem to be suggesting that my representation of the homeopathic notation of dilutions is wrong.

I'd like to see your source for this. Every other homeopathic reference I can find uses the above system:

http://www.mrbean.net.au/~wlast/Homeopathy.html

http://www.pegasuskits.com/homeopathy.htm

http://caninefilmacademy.com/CFACDManual/Data/Extras/Homeopathy.html

http://www.normanallan.com/Med/hombro.html

http://www.greencanyon.com/products/r100080.htm

http://medicinegarden.com/Homeopathy/Potencies.html

Need I continue?
 
radiating-sunflower said:

Why and to waht scrutiny wach of have a differnt level so what level is is assessed by? If there is no level then how can it be justified to demand such like?
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I'm at a loss to parse this paragraph.
 
radiating-sunflower said:


lost me now completely my source my back logged data on the hardrive several boks and internet oh and my brain.
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Did you author all of those articles that appear everywhere on the web? If not, then using material verbatim without attribution is called plagiarism, pure and simple.


if that s what human I am not dishonest I put up what I found when I looked into it years back and added to it along the way.
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The material was not added to. Please refer to the links where the entire text appears verbatim. If you want to "put up what you found", that's fine- but you should make it clear the material is not your own and name the source.


I am never dishonest and that statement is untrue how dare you say such a thing tome and suggest tht I am deeply offended by that imeensily.
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I provided strong evidence to support my claim, unless you authored all those articles online. Haven't you ever heard of plagiarism? Have you ever submitted an essay at the high school level?


NoI dont data lofg every book or article I take waht I need to make my mind up on somthing and as my surgeon suggested it as wellas my docotr I investigated it, I found it didnt provide me particulary well in all ailments. I willnot justify to you my caring side. period.
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I never criticized your 'caring side'- I criticized your belief without scientific evidence in a claim that both flies in the face of simple knowledge of chemistry and has been proven false on many occasions.
 
radiating-sunflower said:

Better to be a fool, than be a cold hearted cynic
eviltongue.gif

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Do you honestly think anyone here is cold-hearted? Why- because they don't buy into this fairy tale? I don't see how getting people to spend money on ineffective sugar pills is terribly caring or humanitarian.


You dont know what I think so dont make assumptions until your qualifed to do so and your not. How is 200x weaker than 30x then not what I have read .
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Read further.
 
radiating-sunflower said:

You lot say homeopathy doesnt work and to ignore it basically? Yes or No
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The principles of homeopathy have been shown to be false, yes.


There isnt any proof it works scientifically or any that satisfies your indivdual requirements. Yes or No
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Exactly.


As I said I believe it does in certain cases, so in essence what you are saying is I cannot believe it does and be a sheep, as scientifc tests have not been preformed and any that had concluded the remedies selected proved they had nothing in them? Yes or No
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You can believe anything you want, but if you're interested in having true beliefs, you have to listen to what the evidence is telling you.


So as I am taking a homeopathic healing agent that helps me get through the day relatively in peace hypothetically I am to stop using it because my beliefs mean diddly squat? Yes or No

So what you are really saying is that I have to suffer as with any other user of homeopathy when modern medicines is no longer any help to us and if I/we take it despite not believing it works I/we contradict myself/ourselves? Yes or No
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I'm not going to tell you to stop using it; I just want you to be informed about what it really is you're taking and whether there's any objective reason to believe the effect isn't all in your head.

Do you care what's true?


Arent you playing god with my/others life/lives by saying that. Telling us what we can take because science knows best and not what we find helps us lead normal lives?
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No one here is trying to force anything on you. I think many here simply want to protect consumers from fraud- because that's what homeopathic preparations are above 12C/24X dilution. Below that level both homeopathy and herbalism are very much like pharmacology, except without the accountability.
 
Ma'at said:
A debate that is raging currently about whether modern medicines should be allowed to continue to be used with some serious side effects/any side effects that are worse or additional to the original symptom.
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Which modern medicines have side effects that are worse than the original symptom?
 
I would like to remind anyone reading this that I have only asked radiating-sunflower if she has any backup for two of her claims, namely:

  1. ”you treat same with same that cures the whole “

    There is no evidence for this. RS has offered no evidence. In addition, there is not even any suggested method by which this is supposed to work. I have merely asked RS to consider the possibility that it is not true.
  2. ”Half of all illnesses around are caused by the side effects of modern medicines”

    No evidence was offered for this, although some articles were posted describing some side-effects. RS later appeared to say that she didn’t really mean “half of all illnesses” (I was being “pendantic on words”), but then reversed again and said she did mean half of all illnesses. I regard this claim as being dishonest and dangerous, and (once again), modern medicine is being unjustly labeled the bad guy. And this from someone who calls others cynical.
    [/list=1]
 
I consider it cold-hearted for people to sell "cures" to desperate people without testing it to make sure it works. That's a scam, a cold-hearted greed-driven scam.
 
R-S

You lot say homeopathy doesnt work and to ignore it basically? Yes or No
Correct

There isnt any proof it works scientifically or any that satisfies your indivdual requirements. Yes or No
It does not work beyond the placebo effect

As I said I believe it does in certain cases, so in essence what you are saying is I cannot believe it does and be a sheep, as scientifc tests have not been preformed and any that had concluded the remedies selected proved they had nothing in them? Yes or No
You can believe it if you want to, but you will be wrong. Scientific tests have been performed, and they have shown that homeopathy is useless.

So as I am taking a homeopathic healing agent that hypothetically I am to stop using it because my beliefs mean diddly squat? Yes or No
Well, the fact that it helps you "get through the day relatively in peace " is not due to the homeopathic "medicine", it is due to your belief that it will work. This is known as the placebo effect. Five cent sugar pills work just as well, if you believe they will.

So what you are really saying is that I have to suffer as with any other user of homeopathy when modern medicines is no longer any help to us...
If modern medicine cannot help you, homeopathy certainly can't. It has absolutely no medicinal value.

and if I/we take it despite not believing it works I/we contradict myself/ourselves? Yes or No
Yes and no. If you do not believe in it, it will not work (i.e. the placebo effect). If you know it won't work, why waste your money on it?

Arent you playing god with my/others life/lives by saying that. Telling us what we can take because science knows best and not what we find helps us lead normal lives?
I just want to rid the world of the scam artists and parasites that make money off of innocent people by selling fake medicine.
 
WHY DON'T YOU ALSO MOVE THIS THREAD?

HEY ADMINISTRATORS:

Ed sez: Yeah, yeah. What? Oh, spam is it laddie? Well now can't be having that. Now, you can beat me to it and find and delete your own spam or I will do it for you. Consider yourself warned.
 
Gang:

RichardR makes an important statement concerning Radiating-Sunflower's failure to support some rather interesting statements. I, too, would like to see the support.

Without evidence anyone can write anything, and this all devolves into another fallacy-laden waste of time.

With all due respect to Radiating-Sunflower I must recommend expending more time when constructing replies. I do not demean anyone's command of English; however, the multiple errors make undestanding the message very diffficult, if not impossible.

--J.D.
 
RichardR said:
Which modern medicines have side effects that are worse than the original symptom?
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It was an article written in a local newspaper or a netnews item about some people debating about wether modern medicine should be sold with any side effects or not. As I have do not save any such information, I can't post it up for you to read unfortunetly.

I dont remember reading about any actual medication or brands that were named in it. It was just a short peice hardly any more than a few paragraphs.

I actually said.

Ma'at, A debate that is raging currently about whether modern medicines should be allowed to continue to be used with some serious side effects/any side effects that are worse or additional to the original symptom. The cure should not mean another illness that is less than the original symptom is preferable. A medicinal cure should mean just that a cure; the end does not justify the means.
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