Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

Childlike Empress said:
Fair enough. But i just finished to listen to a 29min audio lecture given by Michael Parenti in late August, which sheds light on exactly the part of the picture i think you are missing, so i have to recommend it to you (yes i know i'm annoying :)).

DIVERSITY AND ORTHODOXY IN THE NEWS MEDIA
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I'm happy to listen to it and I promise I'll keep an open mind but I really don't think I'm missing anything. I think it's a point of perspective. I can see how someone might root for Chavez and see him as some kind of messianic figure.

I honestly wish the best for people anywhere and I'm happy with whatever socio-economic system they choose. That said, I think there is sufficient evidence to cause one to come to the conclusion that Chavez, though well intentioned, is letting his power cloud his thinking. He reminds me of Mao.
 
And i don't see Chavez as a messianic figure. I'm in general not a "follower". But i think most of the criticism is unfair and unobjective.

Let me preemtively add that the situation Parenti describes is very similar to that in most, if not all, european countries. They have a slightly different focus, but the german mainstream media, for instance, isn't much more diverse than the american mainstream media. The views presented on Venezuela are nearly the same, only the very extreme "dictator calling" is missing. Foundations like the Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung are also pumping money into the venezuelan opposition.

And our alternative media is much weaker than the US alternative media.
 
Today I came across the name Goicoechea again and went to the Cato Institute's website to check if what venezuelanalysis reported was correct. It is. He received the - *drumroll* - "Milton Friedman Price for advancing liberty" and $500.000 bucks for his role in the opposition to last years referendum.

The videos on the site are really funny - so textbook-like, you can't make it up. If you have a few minutes, watch his acceptance speech. His rhetoric sounds exactly like Chavez' (only his spoken english is far better that Hugo's, Angela Merkel's or mine). Fighting poverty is first priority for him. Only "he" has a few really better recipes in mind, never before tried in South America: "The government has to leave the people alone!"

The chap is 23 years old, a teenager when Chavez came to power. I can imagine what mummy told him... Now he is a Chicago Boy. He certainly can't be blamed for anything, but the mechanisms still in place are interesting to watch.

The last recipient of the "Milton Friedman Price for advancing liberty" in 2006 was Estonia's ex-prime minister Mart Laar. A key economic advisor to our georgian friend Mikhail Saakashvili.

It's a small world.
 
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at the moment the Tanks are not on the streets.
This could change quickly.
New rumors about a new coup attempt by the Opposition are in the the Venezuelan press.
Chavez has ordered the defence Minister to investigate the case.

Lets hope its just rumors, and not another attempt to overtrow Chavez.

Meanwhile Venezuela took control of its first Satelite. It is planed to provide communication service to the rural regions of Venezuela.
 
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Dictator Cheney said:
at the moment the Tanks are not on the streets.
This could change quickly.
New rumors about a new coup attempt by the Opposition are in the the Venezuelan press.
Chavez has ordered the defence Minister to investigate the case.

Lets hope its just rumors, and not another attempt to overtrow Chavez.
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Let's hope it's not just a ploy for Chavez to grab even more power.
 
Meanwhile, back in Caracas:
Despite the prospect of economic hard times as oil revenue plunges, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is preparing to go before voters with a plea that they've rejected once before: End term limits that block him from staying in power indefinitely.

The National Electoral Commission is expected this week to set a Feb. 15 date for a referendum seeking approval of a measure that would allow Chavez and all other elected officials to run for reelection an unlimited number of times.

...Venezuela collected an average price of $87 a barrel last year, but current prices for the "basket" of mostly heavy Venezuelan crude oil have fallen to less than $30. Chavez had ridden the oil price bonanza to expand public spending by 26% last year.

He may soon be looking at forced reductions of his domestic welfare projects and of foreign aid, including discounted oil.

...The poor in Venezuela have benefited from increased education and medical coverage, but the official inflation rate hit 30% last month, the highest in Latin America, and prices of food items rose even more. Basic items such as rice, beans and chicken are often scarce as well as costly.

Residents grumble about funding for expensive foreign aid programs, including billions of dollars in discount oil sales to Cuba and Caribbean nations through the Petrocaribe aid program, while in their own country, social services crumble and violent crime flourishes.
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Trouble brewing in paradise...
 
WildCat said:
Let's hope it's not just a ploy for Chavez to grab even more power.
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considering the reaction of Federico Ravell, Director of Globovision, im pretty sure its not coming from Chavez's paranoia.
 
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while the dumb people in the world point its finger to venezuela and laugh with alot Schadenfreude at the falling oilprice and the economic troubles in Venezuela. Theyr governments implement Socialism for the Bankers.

and Chavez opens a huge food factory.....

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4102
 
Thanks Diktatorchen, looks interesting. Tagged:

Venezuela Bolivariana: People and the struggle of the 4th world war

2004 documentary on the impact of financial neo-liberalism on Latin America and other parts of the world and what Hugo Chavez is doing to stop its spread in Venezuela.
Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I'm following a controversy about the recent Human Rights Watch Report on Venezuela, which is quite interesting.

A Decade Under Chávez The HRW Report published September 18th
More Than 100 Latin America Experts Question Human Rights Watch's Venezuela Report in an Open Letter published December 16th
Human Rights Watch's Response to Academics' Criticism December 29th
Academics Respond to Human Rights Watch Director's Defense of Venezuela Report January 12th
 
Childlike Empress said:
Thanks Diktatorchen, looks interesting. Tagged:

Venezuela Bolivariana: People and the struggle of the 4th world war

2004 documentary on the impact of financial neo-liberalism on Latin America and other parts of the world and what Hugo Chavez is doing to stop its spread in Venezuela.
Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I'm following a controversy about the recent Human Rights Watch Report on Venezuela, which is quite interesting.

A Decade Under Chávez The HRW Report published September 18th
More Than 100 Latin America Experts Question Human Rights Watch's Venezuela Report in an Open Letter published December 16th
Human Rights Watch's Response to Academics' Criticism December 29th
Academics Respond to Human Rights Watch Director's Defense of Venezuela Report January 12th
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yeah i have followed that debate about HRW, worth a read. very interesting.
 
WildCat said:
I know, just when you think you know all the latest Marxist jargon they throw a new one at you.
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dont worry wildcat, the docu is far to long for you anyway, you would not be able to follow it or understand the message.
 
a question to the US citizens reading in this thread.

Would you support a coup in Venezuela?
Would you support US involvment in this coup?
 
for those interested, the new healthcare system in Venezuela

Barrio Adentro: An American Medical Student in Venezuela

In my medical school in the North, I reluctantly accepted the presumption that medicine best-served the lucky few with resources and health insurance. Labeled ‘naïvely optimistic’ if I earnestly proposed universal health care, I longed to live in a country where comprehensive health care was a right of all citizens. Most importantly, I wanted to hear firsthand the stories of transformations from a marketbased health care system to one in which medical services, regardless of the level of complexity, are universally guaranteed and provided at no cost to the patient. During 2004, I began reading articles about Venezuela's political changes and notably the redesign of their health and education systems.
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http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1615/35/
 
Mérida, January 14, 2009 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- On Tuesday President Hugo Chavez spent 7 hours giving his annual report for 2008 to the National Assembly, where he detailed country growth indicators, development projects, advancement of the agricultural revolution, and plans for the next 4 years.

According to the Venezuelan constitution, the government’s management report must be given within the first continuous 10 days that the national assembly is in session for the New Year, personally by the president. His address was also transmitted live to national television and radio.
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http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4111

@DC: Started to watch the film, realised i've seen it already. It's a really good overview of the big picture of the Venezuelan development. Would have taken gtc less than 5 minutes to figure out what they mean by 4th world war.

"It's not Chavez' struggle - it's ours!"
 
Dictator Cheney said:
a question to the US citizens reading in this thread.

Would you support a coup in Venezuela?
Would you support US involvment in this coup?
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No and No.

The only US involvement I want to see is to become energy independent and cut the ties that bind us. When the US pays too much for energy, people die and hate the US for not giving enough cheap food and aid. When the US tries to get cheap energy, people die and hate the US for meddling with their governements.

I really love the hate that McDonalds get from the crowd in the video. I wonder how many local people it employs. I wonder how they would like capitalism if it packed up and left? Left with a government oil check that will someday run out and one man/one party deciding who gets it. Chavez just needs the peoples vote till he has the proper legislation and military in place. It's obvious he doesn't give a crap about a proper police force, but gets his big willies from the big guns and hosting countries that historically have a beef with the US along with writing fat checks to some of his neighbors. Capitalism is a boogeyman for countries that would most likely be looking like Ethiopia economically if it wasn't for the income that capitalism generated or some satellite country of another big government like Russia or China looking to exploit them even more. They have a much better record, right? Anyone think Venezuala would be anything but another Guatemala or drug infested cartel run country if they didn't have what the big boys of the world want?

My wife was asked to go there recently as a translator for techs to fix some cancer equipment. Hospital has been sitting on it for a month after taking over a month to get there and having customs make it inoperable. Some things were supposed to go to Columbia and guess who gets greased in that transaction. Nope. Not going to happen. It's too dangerous, and the government doesn't give a crap because it's private doctors. No guarantee of security. F Chavez. Multimillion dollar life saving machines sitting to rot because capitalism is evil.
 
Tailgater said:
No and No.

The only US involvement I want to see is to become energy independent and cut the ties that bind us. When the US pays too much for energy, people die and hate the US for not giving enough cheap food and aid. When the US tries to get cheap energy, people die and hate the US for meddling with their governements.
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decades of toppling elected governments and installing dictators in South America isnt really building up good relationships. and its still going on, and the fast majority of the US people give a :rule10 about it.

Tailgater said:
I really love the hate that McDonalds get from the crowd in the video. I wonder how many local people it employs. I wonder how they would like capitalism if it packed up and left? Left with a government oil check that will someday run out and one man/one party deciding who gets it. Chavez just needs the peoples vote till he has the proper legislation and military in place. It's obvious he doesn't give a crap about a proper police force, but gets his big willies from the big guns and hosting countries that historically have a beef with the US along with writing fat checks to some of his neighbors. Capitalism is a boogeyman for countries that would most likely be looking like Ethiopia economically if it wasn't for the income that capitalism generated or some satellite country of another big government like Russia or China looking to exploit them even more. They have a much better record, right? Anyone think Venezuala would be anything but another Guatemala or drug infested cartel run country if they didn't have what the big boys of the world want?
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in the Venezuelan politic there is a real opposition and a wider spectrum of partys, they rejected the corrupt 2 party system that didnt work.

one man, one party?
the Venezuelans have direct influence in to theyr government, something most americans dont have.

Tailgater said:
My wife was asked to go there recently as a translator for techs to fix some cancer equipment. Hospital has been sitting on it for a month after taking over a month to get there and having customs make it inoperable. Some things were supposed to go to Columbia and guess who gets greased in that transaction. Nope. Not going to happen. It's too dangerous, and the government doesn't give a crap because it's private doctors. No guarantee of security. F Chavez. Multimillion dollar life saving machines sitting to rot because capitalism is evil.
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yeah not everyone has such a great healthcare system like the US.
do you have a clue how the healthcare system was pre chavez?


How much time do we give our politicans to bring the changes we want?
several years mostly. and mostly they have not nearly as much to change as the Venezuelan politicans.

Decades of a corrupt democracy is not changed over night.
still most Venezuelans seem to be happy with the changes they have done already and keep working on it.

the Venezuelan people withstood a coup and got theyr will, and confirmed it several times.
Chavez knows that those same people will kick him out of Miraflores Palace when he mess with them.
 
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