Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[Radrook]

Didn't communist China send in tanks to suppress? That's fairly recent history. Yet relations with that country are on friendly terms.

 

[JihadJane]

Didn't communist China send in tanks to suppress? That's fairly recent history. Yet relations with that country are on friendly terms.

Exactly.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that our relations depend on the democratic credentials of our friends of the moment (who we may bomb next week).

 

[Tailgater]

President Hu Jintao does not openly travel around the world expressing his hate for the US. Also, China recieves plenty of criticism from around the world on human rights. While relations may be friendly for peace and economic symbiosis, they are not immune from criticism.

Some people here think that the ends justify the means and it degrades into the usual Chavez thread. Funny thing is, when using those types of means, the ending is usually not the expected or wanted result. Such is the life of Marx/Chomsky followers, waiting for the right time in history for their ideas to work, always thinking that it's just around the corner. Maybe next time. Maybe next time. Maybe next time if we hand everything over to someone who has our best interests at heart things will be different.

 

[JihadJane]

President Hu Jintao does not openly travel around the world expressing his hate for the US. Also, China recieves plenty of criticism from around the world on human rights. While relations may be friendly for peace and economic symbiosis, they are not immune from criticism.

Nor does "Chavez openly travel around the world expressing his hate for the US". Sometimes he gives the big bully a bit of a verbal poke. So what?

Only people blinded by their belief that America is a religion rather than a nation scream "hate!" at the slightest blaspheming tickle. Where's your sense of humor? Chavez is very funny when he is teasing his over-inflated, deflating, imperial neighbour.

 

[Tailgater]

Nor does "Chavez openly travel around the world expressing his hate for the US". Sometimes he gives the big bully a bit of a verbal poke. So what?

I was refering to a comparison to China. As usual Jane, it went over your head.

My inlaws are all hispanic. I get to watch plenty of Chavez speeches that most Americans or mainstream media don't care about. On average, Chavez can't make a speech without badmouthing or blaming some problem on the US, so if it's not hate, it skirts the border.

Only people blinded by their belief that America is a religion rather than a nation scream "hate!" at the slightest blaspheming tickle. Where's your sense of humor? Chavez is very funny when he is teasing his over-inflated, deflating, imperial neighbour.

Your ability minimize rhetoric and exaggerate imperialism is noted and dismissed.

 

[JihadJane]

I was refering to a comparison to China. As usual Jane, it went over your head.

Sorry, gater, I thought you were comparing Hu Jintao to Chavez.

My inlaws are all hispanic. I get to watch plenty of Chavez speeches that most Americans or mainstream media don't care about. On average, Chavez can't make a speech without badmouthing or blaming some problem on the US, so if it's not hate, it skirts the border.



Your ability minimize rhetoric and exaggerate imperialism is noted and dismissed.

Poor little US must be trembling with fear.

 

[Tailgater]

Sorry, gater, I thought you were comparing Hu Jintao to Chavez.

RIIIIIIIGHT. As in comparison to Chinese relations to the US. Even using your words, Hu doesn't verbally "poke" the US on a regular basis. Both countries recieve criticism for actions, but "relations" are determined more from rhetoric from either side. I was addressing Radrooks post. Next time I'll quote him just for you.

Poor little US must be trembling with fear.

They are not, but is doesn't make for "good" relations. As usual, your exaggeration is noted and dismissed.

 

[JihadJane]

RIIIIIIIGHT. As in comparison to Chinese relations to the US. Even using your words, Hu doesn't verbally "poke" the US on a regular basis. Both countries recieve criticism for actions, but "relations" are determined more from rhetoric from either side. I was addressing Radrooks post. Next time I'll quote him just for you.

My, what big letters you've got!

Thanks for your clarification. Unfortunately it has left me even more confused. I understood Radrook to be asking those who claim it is concern about internal repression that motivates the U.S. to condemn Chavez and his hypothetical tank use, to explain why U.S. relations with China are reasonable despite the fact that they have actually used tanks to suppress democracy, killing protesters in the process.

You appeared to explain this discrepancy by the fact that Chavez badmouths the U.S. while China doesn't. Now you seem to be saying you weren't contrasting President Hu Jintao's mouth with Chavez' mouth at all. You also appear to have misunderstood me to be saying that Hu Jinato is a poker. I wasn't. I was talking about Chavez' pokes.

JJ: Poor little US must be trembling with fear.

They are not, but is doesn't make for "good" relations. As usual, your exaggeration is noted and dismissed.

I was being ironic - you seem to be implying that Chavez' bad-mouthing is some kind of serious threat to the U.S. and justifies the U.S.portraying Chavez not only as a dictator (the U.S. is often on friendly terms with dictators) but as a threat to the U.S. and the world. The is reflected by posters on this thread getting overexcited about his promised use of tanks to defend Venezuela's democracratic revolution. U.S. anger at Chavez is nothing to do with his mouth or democracy. It is because he is not running Venezuela for the benefit of U.S. corporate interests and is following politically left policies. He controls some oil.

The U.S., the most aggressive country in the world, loves to play victim and pretend Chavez is an enemy of "Democracy", hoping that this charade will enable U.S. corporate interests to take back control of Venezuela's huge oil reserves. The U.S. pretends that it acts for the freedom of the people of Venezuela, which is the opposite of the truth. The U.S. wants to control the Venzeluelan people and deny them their democratic choices in favour of U.S "interests".

Again, what does that mean?

Perhaps Childlike Empress knows about your sentient muppets.

 

[Childlike Empress]

As a former foreign correspondent for the Associated Press who spent eight years in Venezuela, one of the most arresting things to me about Hugo Chávez is how the mass media generally depicts him as a buffoon, at best, or some kind of brutal dictator and evil monster. When Chávez visited London, for instance, one daily ran a front-page photo showing Chávez seemingly giving a fascist salute. [...]

While Chávez's decision clearly underscores one of the weaknesses of the Bolivarian Revolution – its one-man show aspect and over-dependence on Chávez as its central figure – it's also important to keep in mind some basic context as his detractors pull out their arrows again. The bottom line, as I document in my new biography "HUGO!" is that until now Chávez has generally remained within the bounds of democracy.

A Bad Press

I agree with everything he said in that little article posted on the GUARDIAN blog.

 

[funk de fino]

A Bad Press

I agree with everything he said in that little article posted on the GUARDIAN blog.

Are you blind or just a coward?

 

[Childlike Empress]

I have a good ignore feature at my hands, not even dependant on software. My sentence outlined that in this thread marksman hasn't called anyone a liar and didn't invent imaginary friends. Why do you ask?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Sorry, i'm human too.

 

[funk de fino]

I have a good ignore feature at my hands, not even dependant on software. My sentence outlined that in this thread marksman hasn't called anyone a liar and didn't invent imaginary friends. Why do you ask?

Why say it?

 

[RandFan]

Nor does "Chavez openly travel around the world expressing his hate for the US". Sometimes he gives the big bully a bit of a verbal poke. So what?

Bush was an a-hole to demonize other nations. We need to cooperate more not less. That said, Bush made only a handful of statements against nations like North Korea (a real hell hole) and Iran (a nation known for its oppression of women and homosexuals) and he was rightly criticized. Chavez regularly attacks the US.

Only people blinded by their belief that America is a religion rather than a nation scream "hate!" at the slightest blaspheming tickle. Where's your sense of humor? Chavez is very funny when he is teasing his over-inflated, deflating, imperial neighbour.

That's all anyone ever does to Chavez. It's funny that he effectively silenced some of his loudest critics. Something Bush could never do. It's funny that close advisers have left him and are speaking out against him. It's funny that he acts like a buffoon and it's funny when his critics tease him for his inflated ego and nonsense. That's all. Were just poking fun at the big fat idiot. It's funny that PBS pointed out his glaring inadequacies and simplistic idealism that hasn't really changed the lives of Venezuelans all that much. It's funny that he doesn't take responsibility for his failure but seeks instead to foment hate against the US like so many dictators do to appease those who still have crappy lives.

 

[DC]

and Chavez just made a handfull of comments about Nations like the USA (known for its antidemocratic and terroristic activities in South america in the past and today, Known for Human Right violations, known for preemtive war based on false intel, i could go on)

when i see Bush talking, he is mostly talking about other nations and international things, seldom i see him in our media talking about domestic problems. One could get the impression there are no problems in the USA....

 

[RandFan]

and Chavez just made a handfull of comments about Nations like the USA (known for its antidemocratic and terroristic activities in South america in the past and today, Known for Human Right violations, known for preemtive war based on false intel, i could go on)

Too bad Chavez doesn't know America also for the good we have done in the world including stopping communism in Western Europe and not annexing half the world the way the Soviets did. That we established a League of Nations and the UN and that we created the Peace Corps and sent humanitarian aid throughout the world. That our efforts in Latin America, though tragic and poorly executed and thought out were an attempt to stop communism, one of the most deadly and destructive ideologies of human history from spreading in this hemisphere.

That America is much more nuanced than the caricature that Chavez can only muster out of ignorance ego.

when i see Bush talking, he is mostly talking about other nations and international things, seldom i see him in our media talking about domestic problems. One could get the impression there are no problems in the USA....

Pssssst...... Don't tell anyone I told you this but....., well, see here in America we have term limits for the president and Bush will be gone in January.

Too bad Venezuela doesn't have term limits... oh wait, they do.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Pssssst...... Don't tell anyone I told you this but....., well, see here in America we have term limits for the president and Bush will be gone in January.

And? Germany hasn't. France hasn't. Are that democracies? Would the american people have voted for Bush a third time if you hadn't term limits? So what's the point? There are good argument for and against term limits, stop wetting your pants. And stop whining about people criticizing "America" Chavez in 2005:

And when I saw on TV how they were broadcasting in the evening news of the tanks attacking Baghdad, advancing toward Baghdad, and they said the Baghdad population were going to receive the American marines with flowers. I said, those people are nuts. They’re insane. These people have been combating for centuries. This is the Mesopotamian people. I know a little bit of the spirit of the Arab countries. Those are warriors, ten times more warriors than we are. They’ve been struggling in war for many centuries. They’re going to receive, not with flowers, they’re going to resist the occupation. That’s the reality we are facing today. The U.S. government, they fooled the U.S. soldiers, telling them, no, its going to be a piece of cake, that your going to be received as heroes, that the Arabian girls will throw flowers at them. They are drowning in a quagmire of blood and it is very painful. That’s the risk that is hovering over the world today. They are now threatening Iraq. There are still threats over Venezuela. They still think about assassinating me. There are also plans to invade Venezuela. Now, when you know the way of thinking of those in the White House, any insanity is possible. Now, let me tell you this, if the imperialist government of the White House led an invasion against Venezuela, well, the war of 100 years will be unleashed in South America. Because with our teeth, with our nails with our knees, we will go to struggle and defend our dignity in South America. Now, I aspire and I pray to God that this will never occur. We want peace. We want life. We want to have eternal relations with these sisters countries, sister nations.

The U.S. people have a major role to play to solve, to save this planet. Because we’re talking about the government. [...]

I’ve learned to appreciate the thinking of John Kennedy. John Kennedy once said, and that’s why he was assassinated, listen to the South, he said once. The recent revolution going on in the south in Africa, in Asia, and Latin America. It was in the 1960’s, where the people, the black power was raging. Che Guevara said, one, two, three, Japan, and Vietnam and Asia. The world was fed up with misery and inequities. As he said, the cause of all the revolution is poverty. And he said this sentence, today more than ever is valid, he said, those who shut down the doors to peaceful resolutions open the doors to violent revolutions. That’s a reality. I do believe that the U.S. people—is the other super power that Noam Chomsky is referring to. What is the other super power? Public opinion. The peoples of the world. That’s the other super power. And the U.S. People have a major responsibility in the world. I think that we’re going to save the world. And I hope that you take part in this struggle in the same way we are doing today. And many other people, women and men in this country, in this soil.

Doesn't sound like he hates the US people, does it? Stop deceiving yourself, RandFan.

 

[moon1969]

By the way in Venezuela they call Chavez by the name Chaburro.

Please do not insert unrelated topics.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[RandFan]

And stop whining about people criticizing "America"

So long as other people are whining I will respond in kind. I'm afraid you are complaining to the wrong person. And BTW, you missed my point by a mile. The salient point is that Bush is irrelevant.

Doesn't sound like he hates the US people, does it? Stop deceiving yourself, RandFan.

Sounds like paranoia and delusions of grandeur. I'm rather surprised you picked that to post. I don't think it helps your argument.

In any event, don't lecture me. I'm sick and tired of people complainging about the criticism of Chavez (a guy well worthy of criticism) while at the same time having no problem with taking shots at the US. If you can't take the heat don't read the thread. I'm not going anywhere.

I'm fine if you want to critisize the US. I welcome it so long as you are fair in your criticism. If you want to pull the kind of nonsense as DC and JJ then I'm happy to stand toe to toe. I'm at least intelectually honest enough to admit the truth on both sides of the argument.

 

[Childlike Empress]

In any event, don't lecture me. ... I'm at least intelectually honest enough to admit the truth on both sides of the argument.

Fair enough. But i just finished to listen to a 29min audio lecture given by Michael Parenti in late August, which sheds light on exactly the part of the picture i think you are missing, so i have to recommend it to you (yes i know i'm annoying ).

DIVERSITY AND ORTHODOXY IN THE NEWS MEDIA