Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

Childlike Empress said:
It's your turn, Pardalis. First read the thread, then answer #392.
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What's to answer? You're OK with Chavez being president for the next 20 years, while if the same happened anywhere else (that isn't socialist of course) you'd be climbing the curtains screaming fascism.

And Betancourt likes him. There are useful idiots even in higher political spheres. So?
 
RandFan said:
It would be great if Chavez could cut the crap. I hate to be redundant but as I said before, Bush was roundly criticized for demonizing nations like Iran and North Korea. It doesn't help. Demonizing America on a weekly basis isn't going to breed a lot of good will. Contrary to his rhetoric America isn't simply an evil empire. We were behind the league of nations and the UN. We didn't annex West Germany or any other nations following WWII. On the contrary we helped Japan, West Germany and other European nations get on their feet and we didn't dictate to them that they couldn't be socialist. Europe is far more socialist than America is. It's true that we were worried about Latin America becoming communist and I think there was some serious miss calculations made and some horrible decisions. It's truly unfortunate but only seeing the worst in America isn't helping anything.

My problem with Chavez is that his rhetoric is so stark and belittling. On top of that he often acts in ways contrary to democracy. Chavez has pulled stunts that Bush couldn't possibly get away with.

As I keep saying, power corrupts and no person is guaranteed immune to it. Given that Chavez has so much power at his disposal and given that close insiders have left him I think there is good reason to be concerned.
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I hate to be redundant, too, so i didn't answer by now. Allow me to repeat that we both don't know how much time he really devotes to bashing the US. It seems to me that the biggest obstacle to bringing my point across - which isn't to defend Chavez but to show that the development in Venezuela is a development demanded by the people -, is still the media bombardment. I did not forget that i promised to comment more detailed on the PBS documentary and i have read an article in the Washington Post yesterday which could be an excellent object for studying propaganda, but for tonight i only recommend another documentary, called "The Venezuelan Revolution Now". It was filmed during the presidential elections 2006 by a group of students from northern countries. They visit and interview ordinary Venezuelans. Compare the people and their level of awareness and commitment to that of the "chavistas" shown by PBS. The process outlined there is still going on, like this recent article shows.

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
 
Pardalis said:
If a military communist crackpot as the head of state of an oil rich country doesn't worry you, so be it.

While you've kept whining for years with your truther scenarios of Neocons and the military taking over the US, you've got the real McCoy in Venezuela, but somehow this one's OK...

BTW, wtf do Germany and Schreiber have to do with it?

ETA: just a quick question and I'm done, do you think Cuba is a democracy?
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you are not worried about Humans, nor a political system, he is not commie, he is a socialist and Maquelina showed him the right way to go, Direct Democracy.

Venezuelas elections are free and fair. Less debates about rigged elections in venezuela than in the US 2000 and 2004.
In venezuela its not the man with the minority of the total votes that wins the election, its the one with the majority.

You have no clue about Venezuela, Chavez or the Bolivarian Revolution. You seem not to be interested what the people in Venezuela want, because they showed who they want, since 10 years they have the one they want.
I am happy for the poor people to finally have someone that speaks for them and fights for them. Our politicans are representing the interest of Corporations.

But your atleast honest about what you are worrieng most, OIL.
yes venezuela is oilrich, and now? thats not your bussines, nor that of Washington. Its the bussines of the Venezuelan people.

Sure from out the warm and save home it is easy to claim Capitalism works and Globalisation is inevitable.
I am actually very pro Globalisation, but not the way the world bank and the IMF understands it.

I am sure you would be against Colonialisation, its for people like you they had to rename it to globalisation.......

Would you think yourself instead of paroting mainstream meda crap you would maybe realise what you are talking about.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7932485454526581006

Capitalism and Globalisation works for us, for our wealth it works, but it does not work in fighting poverty.
You prolly think it is so noble of Nike and GAP to produce in those poor countrys, atleast so they also get a share of our wealth.......
no they dont get, they make our way of life possible.

I am so tired of fooled and blinded Capitalists that have actually no clue what is going on in the world.

Its funny that the media and politics is so much interested in Chavez. Even if he would use rigged elections and rule his country without beeing actually voted in office. It is still no where near to what is going on in North Korea.
And look there? we are not interested in North Korea. our media doesnt talk much about it. our politicans are not really interested in it.
because the have no f*cking OIL.

Either you are an arrogant egoist exploiter that thinks its ok to exploit others to gain wealth.

Or you are a blinded fool not able to think himself, take a few books and actually read about Venezuela and Chavez.
you prolly saw a few anti Chavez docus and now think you have a clue what is going on in Venezuela.

Venezuela trew away theyr corrupt representative Democracy and created a new constitution, even the country was renamed, all this happened thanks to Chavez, and in cooporation other partys and politicans.
they now have a modern Participatory democracy or direct democracy.
And finally the poorest of the poor also get represented.

I guess that is what is upsetng you most, that we now dont have a say about theyr oil anymore.

Go press some sand to get some OIL when you are so addicted.

But the time of exploiting Venezuela and its people is over.
I am happy about it, i dont know why you are geting upset.
Got a big Car? and a Big house that needs oil?

You propably like it alot when there where angry poor mobs running amok in the barrios and the venezuelan army that got ordered to shoot them. which led to an attempt of a coup.

Its funny to see rich fat people like you that dont understand where theyr wealth is coming from, and is geting upset when the poor we exploited resist.

dont you know or do you ignore?

the frensh that was so ignorant to the suffering of the poor that they lost theyr heads for it.
this time the poor angry mob needs to travel around half the globe till it reaches the ignorant exploiters.
 
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btw Oil expert de fino

did Venezuela already hit the peak? Hubberts peak?
 
Pardalis said:
What's to answer? You're OK with Chavez being president for the next 20 years, while if the same happened anywhere else (that isn't socialist of course) you'd be climbing the curtains screaming fascism.

And Betancourt likes him. There are useful idiots even in higher political spheres. So?
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i would not be ok with that.

what i would be perfectly ok with is, the possibility for the people to Vote for Chavez as often they want.
 
Pardalis said:
Capitalism works and globalization is inevitable. Communism has been as much detrimental to the third world as capitalism. And the whole point of elections is to allow the people to change their government every once and a while, otherwise it wouldn't be democracy.
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Funny to hear that from a Canadian.

how is Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, doing? When did you last vote for her? can you start a referendum to elect a new monarch? atleast one for Canada.

and do you directly vote for your prime minister? Do you also have a recall referendum to remove the prime minister when you dislike him?

a few things the Venezuelans can.

ETA: well they also cant elect monarchs afaik.
 
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Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

:k::dl:
 
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i for my part are in no way suprised that poor people that suffered under capitalism and had no way to escape theyr suffering, like in the barrios for example, do vote for a man that did not only make big promises but brought em schools, medical access, cheaper food, gave em rights, fought for them.
when capitalism fails for others, dont blame them for searching alternatives.
 
Dictator Cheney said:
Funny to hear that from a Canadian.

how is Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, doing? When did you last vote for her? can you start a referendum to elect a new monarch? atleast one for Canada.
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Queen has no power.

Yes, I know, you were not asking me!!

You've gone off the deep end today. Calm down just because we have shown you some unfair things your hero has done that you do not like.
 
Dictator Cheney said:
i would not be ok with that.

what i would be perfectly ok with is, the possibility for the people to Vote for Chavez as often they want.
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What if they vote against him extending his terms 10 times? Do you think he should just keep on asking?

How about asking about the other things in his constitution reforms? Why just that one?
 
Dictator Cheney said:
what i would be perfectly ok with is, the possibility for the people to Vote for Chavez as often they want.
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We've learned by sad experience that it is the nature of those in power to use their power to stay in office. I'm damn glad America has term limits. I hope Venezuela never loses them. I think Venezuelans realize that they have something of importance in limited governance. I hope they will continue to realize that.
 
DC, you're long post is completely unintelligible, an full of straw. It has nothing to do with what you responded to.

Calm down, your face is turning red...

I'll only say that with the friends Chavez has, and the paranoia he's afflicted with (he's a truther, just like you and the Child, somehow it goes with the territory I guess) he's a disaster waiting to happen.
 
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RandFan said:
PBS is known for their objectivity and fairness. They aren't FOX News. I've not seen anything to cause me to think they lied.
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I didn't see a single lie in that film and it wasn't too bad, but it leaves you with a false impression. Chomsky calls that "narrowing the debate". That works btw without a conspiracy by the authors, i'm quite sure the authors didn't want to mislead.

FOX News isn't worth to be called propaganda, it is only part of bread and circusses for ignorant people. Strangely enough, i don't find the mentioned monday article of the Washington Post on their website anymore. THAT was propaganda. It was written by some Jose or Jorge, and it contained the name of our student leader who received $500.000 from the Cato Institute. That's why i'm quite sure that the article was pulled - the search doesn't deliver a result for "Goicoechea". If someone has the print edition, check it out.
 
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