Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[JihadJane]

Explain to me again how they were "instrumental" in the violent overthrow?

They were the propaganda arm of the coup, broadcasting lies such as that Chavez had resigned (rather than being kidnapped) and that his supporters had murdered opposition demonstrators. The coup leaders publicly thanked the station for its assistance, acknowledging its vital role.

To answer your question, anyone who committed a crime would be prosecuted. No action could be taken against the TV station.

Not even covert action?

End of story.

It happens daily.

The vast majority of US TV stations pump out virulent, explicit, antigovernment propaganda daily?

 

[WildCat]

At the risk of patronizing, bring your A game. You can do much better.

That is his A game. If you ask CE a direct question, or ask him to show evidence of his assertions he will disappear.

That's been his MO ever since he registered here to argue that the US government did 9/11. May as well argue with a brick wall.

 

[WildCat]

The vast majority of US TV stations pump out virulent, explicit, antigovernment propaganda daily?

There's nothing to stop them if they desire to.

 

[geni]

This is interesting. I'm not sure what to think of it till it's fully implemented though.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1935089920070419

the idea isn't new. UK police have looked into UAVs .

 

[geni]

Its incredible that some people can see him as a hero.

Compared to what went before it's understandable.

 

[geni]

The only thing I find more ridiculous than Chavez is the impulse among some Americans to treat him as if he matters,

He's got a lot of oil. He matters.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Childlike Empress

it is not worth the effort.

the Media calls Chavez a dictator and parrots like dudalb and co will repeat that lie and belive it to be true.

Chavez is a Socislist. in the USA they know Socialism is so Evil™ and no free human beeing, no mather how much Social thinking or how poor one is, no one would vote for a socialist. So he is a Dictator.

Once again, nobody is interested when the CIA supports a coup against a elected goverment.

the same people that call Chavez an evil Dictator are proly the same that was so happy with the US support for a Military Dictator in Pakistan.....

it is amusing to read the comments here, could be directly from FOX news.

I got this far and haven't read further yet.

In case it matters, I'm a Socialist. I'm a very strong Socialist. I think Chavez, while not being utterly evil and despicable, is a crook, a corrupt jackass, and paranoid to the point of violence. He runs his quasi-dictatorship badly, and wants to maintain power by trumpeting a nation he has personal gripes with as being the big bad.

Chavez should go and be replaced by someone FAIRLY and democratically elected, not corrupt and certainly not with the threat of violence behind them.

 

[RandFan]

They were the propaganda arm of the coup...

In America it's called speech and, propaganda or not, it's protected.

Not even covert action?

I don't know how many times I can say this to you while you ignore it. I'll say it again. I don't mean to be rude but please pay attention. If someone commits a crime then they should be prosecuted. If it's libelous then they should be sued. Beyond that the government can't touch them.

I hope that's clear because I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself.

The vast majority of US TV stations pump out virulent, explicit, antigovernment propaganda daily?

"That vast majority"? What does "the vast majority" have to do with anything?

There is a lot of hateful rhetoric on US TV stations.

 

[DC]

Answer me two questions.

• Did the people pass his reforms?
• Did the opposition gain ground in the last election?

I guess you talk about the reform of the Venezuelan Constitution. almost 55% voted against it.

What elections do you mean?
the Presidental Elections 2006? where he won with 62% (More than Obama got)
or the Regional elections 2008? where the Opposition indeed did win some "states"

Chavez is not perfect. For me he is to much Patriotic and not Pacifistic enough.
But i dont get why someone is geting called a Dictator by the Media and its parrots when he won Election after Elections, kinda funny stuff when you look where that anti Chavez propaganda mainly is coming from. From a country that got a President into its whitehouse that didnt even get the majority of the total votes.
Especially the point about chavez, that he is using fear is laughable. Especially considering again the USA where that by a minority elected president is using fear of Terrorism and WMD's to start war, atack another country based on very flawed intel, and twisted words.

So Bush would be impeached for closing an US TV station?
Interesting, not renewing a license of a US TV Station will get you impeached, lies about a blowjob will get you impeached.
But lies or misstakes about WMD's that lead to WAR will get you low ratings but not impeachment. Crazy stuff this.

why some of you asume to be Sceptics is beyond me.

 

[DC]

I got this far and haven't read further yet.

In case it matters, I'm a Socialist. I'm a very strong Socialist. I think Chavez, while not being utterly evil and despicable, is a crook, a corrupt jackass, and paranoid to the point of violence. He runs his quasi-dictatorship badly, and wants to maintain power by trumpeting a nation he has personal gripes with as being the big bad.

Chavez should go and be replaced by someone FAIRLY and democratically elected, not corrupt and certainly not with the threat of violence behind them.

Just because you are a Socialist does not mean you have to like all Socialists

But interesting points you bring up. corruption? can you bring up more details into that corruption?

What exactly makes him a quasi-dictator?

 

[DC]

and i must say, the point about not renewing the TV station Licence is actually a good point.

I can somehow understand why he did it. But in the USA i think that would be difrent.
I mean FOX news is still allowed to call itself fair and balanced, hell i would not even allow them to call them self fox NEWS ! FOX Propaganda maybe yes. or FOX Volksverhetzung.

The freedom of speech in the USA is pretty unique. and to often the negative aspects of it (Nazi propaganda, KKK etc) are pointed out. One of the few points that are very positive about the USA.

 

[DC]

to make it clear. I dont belive cheney is a Dictator, nor would i accept it when the Madia would tell me he is.

 

[JihadJane]

In America it's called speech and, propaganda or not, it's protected.

You mean like the Black Panthers and other "Black Nationalist Hate Groups"(FBI) or anyone the US State decides to label "terrorists" such as environmental activists? They don't seem to get much protection. Are you talking about the "Free Speech Zones" that demonstrators are now herded into like cattle?

I don't know how many times I can say this to you while you ignore it. I'll say it again. I don't mean to be rude but please pay attention. If someone commits a crime then they should be prosecuted. If it's libelous then they should be sued. Beyond that the government can't touch them.

I hope that's clear because I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself.

I think you may be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you believe that the US State doesn't take action against dissidents. For example, I followed Michael Ruppert's website fromthewilderness.com for a number of years. Eventually their offices were broken into and all their computers were smashed up.

"That vast majority"? What does "the vast majority" have to do with anything?

It has everything to do with the topic under discussion because that is the situation in Venezuela, where nearly all the media is controlled by the previously dominant and now furious, US-friendly, right-wing, white colonialist oligarchy.

There is a lot of hateful rhetoric on US TV stations.

Can you name the relevant TV stations. I would like to see it.

 

[JihadJane]

I got this far and haven't read further yet.

In case it matters, I'm a Socialist. I'm a very strong Socialist. I think Chavez, while not being utterly evil and despicable, is a crook, a corrupt jackass, and paranoid to the point of violence. He runs his quasi-dictatorship badly, and wants to maintain power by trumpeting a nation he has personal gripes with as being the big bad.

Chavez should go and be replaced by someone FAIRLY and democratically elected, not corrupt and certainly not with the threat of violence behind them.

I have read your claims to be a "Socialist" before and never been able to match your rhetoric with any socialism I know of.

In what way was Chavez UNFAIRLY elected?

 

[gtc]

You mean like the Black Panthers and other "Black Nationalist Hate Groups"(FBI) or anyone the US State decides to label "terrorists" such as environmental activists? They don't seem to get much protection.

What has that got to do with free speech?

I think you may be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you believe that the US State doesn't take action against dissidents. For example, I followed Michael Ruppert's website fromthewilderness.com for a number of years. Eventually their offices were broken into and all their computers were smashed up.

Do you have evidence that this even happened? Let alone evidence that the US government had something do to with this?

It has everything to do with the topic under discussion because that is the situation in Venezuela, where nearly all the media is controlled by the previously dominant and now furious, US-friendly, right-wing, white colonialist oligarchy.

White colonialist? Oh really?

 

[Childlike Empress]

and i must say, the point about not renewing the TV station Licence is actually a good point.

I can somehow understand why he did it. But in the USA i think that would be difrent.
I mean FOX news is still allowed to call itself fair and balanced, hell i would not even allow them to call them self fox NEWS ! FOX Propaganda maybe yes. or FOX Volksverhetzung.

The freedom of speech in the USA is pretty unique. and to often the negative aspects of it (Nazi propaganda, KKK etc) are pointed out. One of the few points that are very positive about the USA.

Again, we are talking about a license to broadcast on VHF Channel 2, nothing else. They are still operating over cable and satellite. See www.rctv.net

Couldn't happen in the US? Well, in the wikipedia article about the FCC i read:

In the early 2000s, the FCC began stepping up censorship and enforcement of indecency regulations again, most notably following the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" that occurred during the halftime show of Super Bowl XXXVIII. However, the FCC's regulatory domain with respect to indecency remains restricted to the public airwaves, notably VHF and UHF television and AM/FM radio.

So, they have different standards for public airwaves, too. What would happen if a station didn't pay the fines and continued to show naked breasts on public airwaves every second day? Would the FCC think of the children?

Well, what's considered indecent certainly depends on the culture. Venezuela ...

... has such a law called the Law of Social Responsibility for Radio and Television (LSR). Enforcement of it is handled by the National Telecommunications Commission, an independent regulatory body with authority to issue broadcasting licenses. The law's intent is to define and "establish the social responsibility of radio and television service providers, related parties, national independent producers, and users in the process of broadcasting and reception of messages, promoting a democratic equilibrium between their duties, rights, and interests, with the goal of seeking social justice and contributing to citizenship formation, democracy, peace, human rights, education, culture, public health, and the social and economic development of the Nation, in conformity with constitutional norms and principles, legislation for the holistic protection of boys, girls, and adolescents, education, social security, free competition, and the Organic Telecommunications Law." source

@RandFan: I've watched the PBS documentary now. All in all it wasn't bad and critcism on that level is certainly justified. However, i had some issues with it which i will outline later, perhaps tomorrow. Just one comment on the RCTV issue:

This was given only a minute or so, first they say that the license wasn't renewed and then in the next sentence they talk about that the station was "closed" again, with the guy from the Economist telling with a straight face that Chavez "disrespected the will of the people [to watch Soap Operas]". Not very compelling an no word on their role during the coup.

edit: I was indeed mistaken when i said that the license ran for six years. It was a twenty year license issued in 1987.

 

[DC]

I understand that the TV channel was not closed, and it is still airing.
But the way it was handled was not OK i think.

They should have really closed it when they was able to prove the involvment in the bloody coup. And honestly state why that is.

And not just using some kind of backdoor.

I have no troubles with TV station beeing closed do to callup to violence and overtrowing of an elected government that acted within the rules.

I myself would have closed FOX news for Folksverhetzung during the Iraq war.

Sure Nipplegate was a scandal, like Billys blowjob. that is upsetting US people. 1000's of death civilians in a WAR based on lies and false intel does not upset US people, aslong no nipples are shown.
in that aspect the USA and its people are totaly mind****ed.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I understand that the TV channel was not closed, and it is still airing.
But the way it was handled was not OK i think.

They should have really closed it when they was able to prove the involvment in the bloody coup. And honestly state why that is.

And not just using some kind of backdoor.

I understand your point but in that case they would have to have closed Venevision and one or two other private stations, too. That was politically impossible given the international situation. And it would have caused serious internal troubles. The process in Venezuela is a balance act, they have to be very careful what they are doing. Nobody in the media was prosecuted, btw. No "revenge" taken.

I myself would have closed FOX news for Folksverhetzung during the Iraq war.

FOXverhetzung? I like that word...

 

[DC]

I understand your point but in that case they would have to have closed Venevision and one or two other private stations, too. That was politically impossible given the international situation. And it would have caused serious internal troubles. The process in Venezuela is a balance act, they have to be very careful what they are doing. Nobody in the media was prosecuted, btw. No "revenge" taken.

Thats prolly very true, especially considering that now it is already used against him.

FOXverhetzung? I like that word...

lol nice word

Möge die Blumenkraft mir Dir sein

 

[JihadJane]

Sure Nipplegate was a scandal, like Billys blowjob. that is upsetting US people. 1000's of death civilians in a WAR based on lies and false intel does not upset US people, aslong no nipples are shown.
in that aspect the USA and its people are totaly mind****ed.

There was a thread on this forum a while ago -can't remember what it was called - something like "What would you say to Jesus?". Posters happily described extremely violent things they'd do to his genitals. No problem. I suggested doing something nice to them (not even sexual, BTW, but sensual) and the post was quickly deleted for being obscene. You are right, DC, in the US violence appears not to be considered obscene in the way that an exposed nipple is!

Perhaps it's a legacy from violent, Puritan ancestors.