School shooting Florida

[332nd]

White supremacy or racism is there inside this kid...

Group chat messages show school shooter obsessed with race, violence and guns




https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

So white nationalist decided to troll the media by claiming he was one of them, & it turns out he really was.

 

[Ranb]

Yeah, but the only bit that counts is the guns. Nothing else they use causes the carnage they seek.

I disagree. While murder rates are going down. https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

School shootings and mass killings are going up. Coverage (sensational and otherwise) is rising also.

What really counts is if you're assaulted, threatened or killed.

 

[Andy_Ross]

And I long to dine upon the savory flesh of barbecued unicorn. They can have memorials, grief counseling maybe even some sort of celebrity visit. Gun control though?
I will say, though, that Trump probably has more power to effect some sort of meaningful change in gun laws than anyone else would in the same office. I believe that there's a great deal of overlap between his base and the gun enthusiast community. It took Nixon to go to China. Also, it would be a great distraction from his other troubles.

Instead he tweets

"Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!"

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Instead he tweets

"Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!"

Did anyone really expect him to take the high ground?

 

[Ranb]

The problem is that the Americans who support tougher gun laws -- a substantial majority by most surveys -- see it as one of many good government measures they would like to enact. But the people who oppose them -- backed by the money and propaganda of the NRA -- are "one-issue" voters. They will vote for anybody who promises to save their gun "rights" no matter who they are or what else they will or won't do. It's more a matter of cultural identity than a public policy choice.

Depending on who you read, the money spent by the NRA is dwarfed by other lobbies. I don't think there are enough politicians in the "NRA's pocket" to matter. Now people who actually talk to their representatives is another matter. Gun rights are huge with some people just like abortion rights are to others.

 

[Andy_Ross]

. Gun rights are huge with some people just like abortion rights are to others.

Insane people you mean?

 

[William Parcher]

So white nationalist decided to troll the media by claiming he was one of them, & it turns out he really was.

Pretty close. The fake news was that he had joined an organized group and was active including being trained in something like "race warfare".

Anyway, it still does appear that his random spree targets are not typical for the ideology of white supremacist as a demonstration of "who needs to be killed off" according to them.

If you look at his Instagram list of people who need killing, you find that he didn't accomplish that at all. A completely wasted effort if in fact that was the goal. His racist buddies on Instagram would say that he killed the wrong guys.

IMO, he had an intense desire to kill lots of people and white supremacy was relegated to a much lower priority.

Anyone who simply describes him as a white supremacist who went on a shooting spree is someone who is missing the full spectrum of his insanity.

 

[crescent]

Insane people you mean?

People with blood on their hands.

And yes, I really mean that. I have said that before on this forum and I really mean it. I am sick of this. It needs to end, and more guns now and forever will never be the solution.

 

[Arisia]

The tight controls the US federal government has over civilian ownership of fully automatic weapons should be looked upon as a success story and a way forward. None of these domestic terrorists have done their horrifying work with truly automatic weapons. Getting your hands on a working machine gun is next to impossible, even for law-abiding citizens, the 'shall not be infringed' portion of the Second Amendment notwithstanding.

It's a place to start.

 

[William Parcher]

None of these domestic terrorists have done their horrifying work with truly automatic weapons.

I don't think that Cruz is a terrorist. He had no cause. There is no coherent entity to fear. We are supposed to be terrorized of what?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I don't think that Cruz is a terrorist. He had no cause. There is no coherent entity to fear. We are supposed to be terrorized of what?

Easy access to machines designed to kill school children in large numbers.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Who is going to do this? Even the Democrat controlled Congress was unwilling to do so when they had the chance.

Where will military weapons come from then? Someone has to invent and market stuff even if it isn't to civilians.

What MG prohibition? You talking about the Hughes amendment to the FOPA of 1986?

The federal government doesn't ban any type of firearm; never has. They tax, put certain obstacles in place for registration and have sentencing enhancements for criminals that use certain type. There are no federal bans on any small arms in the USA. Amazing how hard it is for some people to wrap their heads around that.

The reality is that school killings are done with more than guns. I never suggested that guns didn't make it easier to do. Not sure why people insist that I am.

Do you see how you are moving goal posts here?

From 'it won't do any good because 'they' will just find other weapons' to 'you can't get the legislation passed or updated'?

From 'the legislation is impossible to write' to 'if you write it it will somehow interfere with military weapons development'?

You have to start by getting past the easily disproved claim that ready access to mass killer firepower has nothing to do with it, people that want to commit mass murder will just find another way. It ignores the impulse killer who might not kill if it is harder or might kill fewer people if he doesn't have 30 bullet clips or a bumpstock device.

Depending on who you read, the money spent by the NRA is dwarfed by other lobbies. I don't think there are enough politicians in the "NRA's pocket" to matter. Now people who actually talk to their representatives is another matter. Gun rights are huge with some people just like abortion rights are to others.

The NRA leadership is the problem. Most of the members are in favor of regulations. And the leadership is bought and paid for by the gun manufacturers.

How The Gun Industry Funnels Tens Of Millions Of Dollars To The NRA

One of the most interesting aspects of all is how an association for sportsmen became the prime defenders of assault weaponry.

In its early days, the National Rifle Association was a grassroots social club that prided itself on independence from corporate influence.

While that is still part of the organization's core function, today less than half of the NRA's revenues come from program fees and membership dues.

The bulk of the group's money now comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, much of it originating from gun industry sources.

Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million to it through the NRA Ring of Freedom sponsor program. Donors include firearm companies like Midway USA, Springfield Armory Inc, Pierce Bullet Seal Target Systems, and Beretta USA Corporation. Other supporters from the gun industry include Cabala's, Sturm Rugar & Co, and Smith & Wesson.

The NRA also made $20.9 million — about 10 percent of its revenue — from selling advertising to industry companies marketing products in its many publications in 2010, according to the IRS Form 990.

Additionally, some companies donate portions of sales directly to the NRA. Crimson Trace, which makes laser sights, donates 10 percent of each sale to the NRA. Taurus buys an NRA membership for everyone who buys one of their guns. Sturm Rugar gives $1 to the NRA for each gun sold, which amounts to millions. The NRA's revenues are intrinsically linked to the success of the gun business.

The NRA Foundation also collects hundreds of thousands of dollars from the industry, which it then gives to local-level organizations for training and equipment purchases.

This shift is key to understanding why a coalition of hunters, collectors and firearm enthusiasts takes the heat for incidents of gun violence, like the shooting massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, rather than the companies that manufacture and market assault weapons....

"Today's NRA is a virtual subsidiary of the gun industry," said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center. "While the NRA portrays itself as protecting the 'freedom' of individual gun owners, it's actually working to protect the freedom of the gun industry to manufacture and sell virtually any weapon or accessory."

 

[quadraginta]

Facile bilge. Trotting out slogans, without any supporting logic or evidence, is exactly what the world has come to expect of apologists for the crazy gun culture in the USA. Please say "freedom comes at a price"......

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of innocent schoolchildren."​

Oh ... wait. That doesn't sound quite right.

 

[quadraginta]

Anybody else find this incredibly stupid?



And get the pricetag:



In another article, it was mentioned that the building was constructed in 2009, so it's unlikely to be functionally obsolete.

Look, the building did nothing. A couple of fresh coats of paint will get rid of the blood spatters on the wall. Yes, I am sure that it will be difficult for students and teachers to enter the building again. I suspect strongly it will be difficult for them to go back to any of the buildings in the school.

I'm sure the compassion of these politicians is completely unaffected by trivial facts like Parkland (which is served by that high school) is 84% white and has an average household income of $277,000 per year.

 

[arthwollipot]

Looking at his pin head, his weird eyes and ears, he could be the product of incest.

Do you often make judgements on character and ancestry based on physiognomy?

Of course I don't like it. No one does. What are you getting at?

You don't like it, but you're content to let it continue to happen rather than advocate for meaningful restrictions, if that means that you don't have to give up some of your own guns?

 

[Cain]

Do you often make judgements on character and ancestry based on physiognomy?

My first reaction to seeing him was, "And this is why cousins shouldn't ****." But yeah, it's far-fetched (and invalid even if true).

 

[Meadmaker]

So do many of the students. It feels different this time.

It does feel different this time, doesn't it?

I thought it was just me. For some reason, and I don't know why, this one just felt a little different than all the others, and makes me want to say, "I've had enough. I don't care about your stupid guns, and yes, it really is the friggin' guns! And yes, banning the damned things really would result in less of these killings. Really."

And I'm tired of the "it will still be possible for a determined killer to get a gun, so why ban any of them" arguments. And maybe that's why this one feels different. This kid wasn't a determined killer. This kid wasn't a warped ideologue going down for Allah, or trying to start a race war, or avenging the deaths of whales, or whatever stupid reason someone might have for killing. This was just a dumbass kid who wanted to be a big man, who wanted to be powerful, who wanted to show the world who was boss. Well he sure showed us. Indeed he did, because here in America, even a dumbass kid can walk into a gun shop, lay down some coin, and walk out with a portable arsenal with which he can end some lives that have barely begun. God Bless America. Freedom is back in style.


Can you imagine if AR15s and the like were illegal in America? Now Mr. Dumbass here decides to do his dirty work, so he seeks out an illegal gun salesman, because they really will still exist even if we outlawed guns, or just that sort of gun. Yes, there will still be illegal gun sales. So, Dumbass manages to find out the name of a seller, and goes to the biker bar where they hang out....well, he has to wait outside, because he's not 21, but he goes there, and introduces himself to the local gun runner, and explains that he's a recent high school dropout who wants to purchase an illegal weapon capable of mass murder. Do you suppose the gun runner sells him the weapon and ammo he needs? Do you really think that anyone who manages to stay in that illegal business is going to sell that kid an illegal gun? Really? That would just be begging to end up in the slammer, because even though the gun runner won't know what the kid is up to, he will be able to smell stupid from a mile away, and know that this is exactly the sort of kid that will do something stupid, get caught, and sing like a canary, pointing the finger back at the gun runner.

Yes. It's true. Making these guns illegal really would prevent some of these killings, and I, and maybe a lot more people, are fed up with hearing that it won't.

 

[William Parcher]

Defense attorneys have said that Cruz will plead guilty to the shooting if prosecutors agree not to seek the death penalty, arguing that it would not be right to execute someone who slipped through so many cracks.

Michael J. Satz, the state attorney for Broward County, said his office would not formally announce whether it will seek a death sentence until further along in the investigation, saying that now is a time to let families mourn. But he also said Saturday that the rampage “certainly is the type of case the death penalty was designed for.”...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...0c6bec-143f-11e8-9570-29c9830535e5_story.html

 

[smartcooky]

It does feel different this time, doesn't it?

I thought it was just me. For some reason, and I don't know why, this one just felt a little different than all the others, and makes me want to say, "I've had enough. I don't care about your stupid guns, and yes, it really is the friggin' guns! And yes, banning the damned things really would result in less of these killings. Really."

And I'm tired of the "it will still be possible for a determined killer to get a gun, so why ban any of them" arguments. And maybe that's why this one feels different. This kid wasn't a determined killer. This kid wasn't a warped ideologue going down for Allah, or trying to start a race war, or avenging the deaths of whales, or whatever stupid reason someone might have for killing. This was just a dumbass kid who wanted to be a big man, who wanted to be powerful, who wanted to show the world who was boss. Well he sure showed us. Indeed he did, because here in America, even a dumbass kid can walk into a gun shop, lay down some coin, and walk out with a portable arsenal with which he can end some lives that have barely begun. God Bless America. Freedom is back in style.


Can you imagine if AR15s and the like were illegal in America? Now Mr. Dumbass here decides to do his dirty work, so he seeks out an illegal gun salesman, because they really will still exist even if we outlawed guns, or just that sort of gun. Yes, there will still be illegal gun sales. So, Dumbass manages to find out the name of a seller, and goes to the biker bar where they hang out....well, he has to wait outside, because he's not 21, but he goes there, and introduces himself to the local gun runner, and explains that he's a recent high school dropout who wants to purchase an illegal weapon capable of mass murder. Do you suppose the gun runner sells him the weapon and ammo he needs? Do you really think that anyone who manages to stay in that illegal business is going to sell that kid an illegal gun? Really? That would just be begging to end up in the slammer, because even though the gun runner won't know what the kid is up to, he will be able to smell stupid from a mile away, and know that this is exactly the sort of kid that will do something stupid, get caught, and sing like a canary, pointing the finger back at the gun runner.

Yes. It's true. Making these guns illegal really would prevent some of these killings, and I, and maybe a lot more people, are fed up with hearing that it won't.

THIS!



On behalf of

Alyssa Alhadeff (14)
Scott Beigel (35)
Martin Duque Anguiano (14)
Nicholas Dworet (17)
Aaron Feis (37)
Jamie Guttenberg (14)
Chris Hixon (49)
Luke Hoyer (15)
Cara Loughran (14)
Gina Montalto (14)
Joaquin Oliver (17)
Alaina Petty (14)
Meadow Pollack (18)
Helena Ramsay (17)
Alex Schachter (14)
Carmen Schentrup (16)
Peter Wang (15)

Yeah... it brings it home seeing the names and ages listed, doesn't it?

(well, at least it does if you have any humanity!)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It does feel different this time, doesn't it?

I thought it was just me. For some reason, and I don't know why, this one just felt a little different than all the others, and makes me want to say, "I've had enough. I don't care about your stupid guns, and yes, it really is the friggin' guns! And yes, banning the damned things really would result in less of these killings. Really."

And I'm tired of the "it will still be possible for a determined killer to get a gun, so why ban any of them" arguments. And maybe that's why this one feels different. This kid wasn't a determined killer. This kid wasn't a warped ideologue going down for Allah, or trying to start a race war, or avenging the deaths of whales, or whatever stupid reason someone might have for killing. This was just a dumbass kid who wanted to be a big man, who wanted to be powerful, who wanted to show the world who was boss. Well he sure showed us. Indeed he did, because here in America, even a dumbass kid can walk into a gun shop, lay down some coin, and walk out with a portable arsenal with which he can end some lives that have barely begun. God Bless America. Freedom is back in style.


Can you imagine if AR15s and the like were illegal in America? Now Mr. Dumbass here decides to do his dirty work, so he seeks out an illegal gun salesman, because they really will still exist even if we outlawed guns, or just that sort of gun. Yes, there will still be illegal gun sales. So, Dumbass manages to find out the name of a seller, and goes to the biker bar where they hang out....well, he has to wait outside, because he's not 21, but he goes there, and introduces himself to the local gun runner, and explains that he's a recent high school dropout who wants to purchase an illegal weapon capable of mass murder. Do you suppose the gun runner sells him the weapon and ammo he needs? Do you really think that anyone who manages to stay in that illegal business is going to sell that kid an illegal gun? Really? That would just be begging to end up in the slammer, because even though the gun runner won't know what the kid is up to, he will be able to smell stupid from a mile away, and know that this is exactly the sort of kid that will do something stupid, get caught, and sing like a canary, pointing the finger back at the gun runner.

Yes. It's true. Making these guns illegal really would prevent some of these killings, and I, and maybe a lot more people, are fed up with hearing that it won't.