School shooting Florida

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Agree generally, but really like the highlighted. Even if it is a bit "think of the children".

One should always think of the children - but it should always be when there is a clear problem, not a made up or insanely rare one.
 
Don't be crazy like that.

Call of Duty requires some sort of decent gaming system - they might try to use it for other things, like math games and science lessons, or even to teach them some coding skills.

Most importantly, computers are WAY too expensive to put in a school. Gotta keep an eye on the budget you know.

Just in case this is not joking, Orange County FL. not only has computers in each classroom , but the students are issued a portable for the year each year.
 
How expensive, cost and lives, would it be to try and get guns of the "cold dead hands" people? There are millions of guns to be traced and removed and for all Trump thinks the courts can be by-passed, they cannot and lawyers will make millions as the law tries to define who is suitable and who is a weirdo.

It is incredible, but bullet proof glass in all schools could be the cheaper option.
Would be great, but rather expensive. I also would like classroom/entry doors that were wood appearing but steel cored.
 
Problem: killer on the loose inside a school building with a semi-automatic.

Solution: bullet proof windows

Sorry. I'm not seeing the connection.
Turn schools into fortresses so that whack jobs can roam the streets with modified military weapons? Gonna go with 'no' on that proposal.

Restrict rapid fire high capacity weapons to those who pass additional licensing/background checks? Yeah, still rolling with that.

Problem: killer on the loose inside a school building with a semi-automatic.

Solution: Anything that distracts from discussion of whether the availability of certain weapons contributes to the problem.

See. Fits perfectly
Distract from discussing availability of weapons? Quite the opposite my friend!

The entire conversation in the media-sphere revolves around firearms. I predict that the bill of sale offered by the media-sphere will do very little to curtail mass shootings in an acceptable way.
If the average number of people whom die from mass shootings was 20, and laws are passed, which reduced that number to 10; would that be acceptable to you?
If 250 people per year are killed in mass shootings, and laws are passed, which reduced that number to 200; would that be acceptable to you?
What effect do you predict your suggestions to reduce mass shootings will result in? What evidence do you have that your predictions are accurate? (If you mention xyz country as justification for any proposed solutions they will be taken with a grain of salt. There are way too many variables when comparing other countries to the US. Socialization, law enforcement, healthcare, etc to make any reliable comparisons. If we exactly mirrored every aspect of the other countries than I admit our results would be almost exact, but that is not what anybody is advocating).
These are serious questions.

I believe that rhetoric such as saying weapons of war, assault weapons, etc, is an indication of narrow-mindedness. It's an unhealthy fixation on one aspect of many. It doesn't even address the root-cause of these tragedies. Calling people 'wack jobs' isn't helpful. These are individuals that are suffering from an illness. An illness that is treatable. We're trying to reduce stigmas. Taking action before these individuals get to place of deciding to kill others should be a goal too. Calling them 'wack jobs' isn't going to solve anything.

Discussing preventative and mitigating solutions seem appropriate. It's called wedge approach. I am not personally opposed to moving semi-auto guns to title II firearms. If that were to occur I believe that the tax on firearms should be reduced from $200. That is a preventative measure. Discussing possible mitigating solutions (barriers, bulletproof glass, points of access, etc) when these incidents occur can provide benefit as well.

Does that change the roughly $500,000 to $1,000,000 per-school cost to retrofit existing schools?

It is also not clear if he was just not able to break the window out, or if the bullets actually failed to penetrate it. (ETA: There is shatter-resistant glass which is anything but bulletproof, but which does not break into tiny pieces and fall out of the frame when shot. It is not clear what sort that school had.)
I acknowledge that societies operate on finite resources. How schools choose to allocate their monetary resources should be left to the localities and states. The local government and elected representatives are in a better position to make these decisions. I believe that the continued nationalization of mass shootings is contributing to some of the inaction. Of which the natural progress is outrage, anger and hopelessness.
 
Distract from discussing availability of weapons? Quite the opposite my friend!.........

I believe that rhetoric such as saying weapons of war, assault weapons, etc, is an indication of narrow-mindedness...........That is a preventative measure. Discussing possible mitigating solutions (barriers, bulletproof glass, points of access, etc) when these incidents occur can provide benefit as well...........


Don't like the way the discussion is framed? Quite happy to assume that school shootings will go on ad infinitum, thus mitigation and defense is the way forward? Sounds like you might benefit from a little proper research into the matter:

Here.

Because at the moment, this line of that research seems to apply particularly well to your line of argument:

Having no research to answer crucial gun debate questions “creates a fact-free environment, where people can make claims that make problems for legislation moving forward”, Andrew Morral, the lead researcher on the project, said.
That lack of evidence is not an accident, but a political choice, shaped by more than two decades of opposition to federally funded gun research from the National Rifle Association (NRA) and other gun rights advocates.
 
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It is much more likely that students and faculty will have to quickly evacuate rather than be locked down. I'm thinking fire, chemical hazard, etc. If a school is too secure then it's a disaster waiting to happen.
 
I read an interesting article the other day, which I think bears on the debate. The issue here is not just gun rights, but the distinction between weapons. Gun advocates seem to presume that all things that fire bullets are in a single category, but should this be so?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

Just someone who hasn't seen many rifle wounds, imo.

Not many higher power handgun wounds either, I guess.

Rifles are seldom used in crimes.
 
Just someone who hasn't seen many rifle wounds, imo.
Not many higher power handgun wounds either, I guess.

Rifles are seldom used in crimes.

It does not need to be your opinion. He said this in the first paragraph of the article. Do you have a point relative to bruto's post?
 
Just someone who hasn't seen many rifle wounds, imo.

Not many higher power handgun wounds either, I guess.

Rifles are seldom used in crimes.

Do we even know what kind of ammo the jerk was using. Sounds to me as if he may have been using some kind of varmint ammo. Perhaps something like Hornady V-Max.

What that radiologists describes is not characteristic of either NATO M193 (55 grain) or NATO 855 (62 grain).

ETA: On second thought these shot were very close range. The NATO rounds or similar might do that at very close range. However, it is still important to know the type of ammo used...
 
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However, it is still important to know the type of ammo used...

To whom? The kids running down the hall? The kids huddled in class rooms? The cops loitering outside? The parents wondering if their child lived through a massacre at their high school? The parents who had to bury their kids? Or Ted Cruz, who just has to cash those NRA campaign contributions? Do any of them care what ammo was used?
 
Second, I heard three different stories on the radio yesterday about kids being jailed or arrested for making threats against schools. One of them was a 12 year old. The others were early teens. What a horrible thing to do, and why do we do it? Well, we have to, I guess. We can't tell which ones are just jokes, and which ones are just 15 year olds mouthing off, as 15 year olds do, and which of the many, many, threats are actually a sign that a kid is actually going to acquire a gun and kill people. We just can't take a chance, so kids go to jail.

Wouldn't it be neat if it were so difficult to acquire the required weapons that we didn't have to fear any of those threats? Wouldn't it be neat if, when some guy started mouthing off about "I'll kill you all!" we could call the school psychologist, but not have to fear that this kid could actually steal dad's AR-15 and carry out his threat? Catching these kids and throwing them in the slammer is not a success story.

QFT. These kids being arrested is a failure, not a success.

Each and every time a kid goes to jail society has failed that kid monumentally.

What response do you expect the police to have and what repercussions do you think is appropriate for the kids that do this? Why is it a failure?

Last week a school in my daughters district had a threat spread through social media. It was over the night said to not be credible but more than half the children to that school did not go the next day. It was much the same at EVERY school in town, across all ages. Multiple cops were stationed at each school during drop off and pick up times, as well as some staying on during the school day inside the schools.

This is in addition to terrifying the students themselves, the faculty, and all the parents who now have an additional fear about their children's safety during school. Some are pushing for metal detectors and/or on duty cops to be at each school all day.

Saying kids do stupid stuff, oh well, is not sufficient to me.
 
Alex Wagner

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Delta CEO defends choice to end NRA partnership in the wake of Georgia legislature killing the company's coveted tax break: "Our decision was not made for economic gain and our values are not for sale."
 
To whom? The kids running down the hall? The kids huddled in class rooms? The cops loitering outside? The parents wondering if their child lived through a massacre at their high school? The parents who had to bury their kids? Or Ted Cruz, who just has to cash those NRA campaign contributions? Do any of them care what ammo was used?

Did you even bother to see what I was replying to? No, it's not important to your emotional rant, but it might be when considering policy...
 
Did you even bother to see what I was replying to? No, it's not important to your emotional rant, but it might be when considering policy...

You said it was important and I can not fathom how. I listed the most interested parties in the event and I doubt it mattered to any of them. So, if you think it is important, who would it matter to and why?

Unless you are thinking we need to ban certain types of ammo, but I really doubt that is your position. I think the point is to detract from actual conversation.
 
Ever notice how when a tragedy like this happens we hear a lot about a certain weapon ( in my 32 years is been uzi, hand guns ,sawed off shotguns, and now "assault" rifles. Not to mention the knives that get press for a year randomly) we pass laws making that weapon harder to get or illegal,yet this crap still keeps happening.

Maybe focusing on the job instead of the tool would work better.
 
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