School shooting Florida

[William Parcher]

Ok, so 35 stores have now stopped selling AR-15s. Those are the F&S stores.

 

[William Parcher]

With these several "big box" retailers changing to 21, it then leaves Cabela's and Bass Pro as the remaining big boxes that will sell to 18, 19 and 20 year olds?

Did I get that correct, or are there other big boxes selling these guns to under 21?

Also, Bass Pro now owns Cabela's. FWIW.

 

[crescent]

I don't know. KMart used to sell guns, but there are few of Kmarts left. Sears also used to sell guns, I don't know if any of them do any more. Same corporation, won't be around much longer anyway.

Here in Colorado there is a local chain (about six or seven stores) of big stores called JAX that competes with Cabelas. They don't sell assault-looking rifles or slide stocks, I am not sure of their age limits.

When I lived in St. George Utah the local Ace Hardware store had a gun section that always seemed to be doing brisk business, especially with the ammo. Ace is a nationwide chain but I don't think many of them sell guns or ammo, they are franchises though with a degree of independence.

I can't think of any other chains, especially nation-wide chains that sell guns.

ETA: Big 5. I have not heard of any change from them.

 

[bruto]

I've suggested how it might be brought in without checks......by punishing breeches which result in a child getting possession of the gun, an intruder getting possession of the gun, or the gun being discharged indoors (other than at an intruder). If you knew that you were going to be in serious trouble if, say, a burglar stole your gun, you'd be careful what you did with it.

True there but it's a tricky balance, I think. I think it would have to be defined as an offense only if some other crime is committed or action taken, and specifically made not an excuse for search and seizure by itself. I am always suspicious of unenforceable or unenforced laws, as I think they have a potential for harassment and selective use against persons perceived as enemies of the state and the like. I like the idea, but I'm not sure how it would be implemented without that danger.

 

[Zambo]

Indeed.

What happens when the next school shooting occurs when the kids are outside playing? Ban that?

Play? Not strictly necessary at a school I think. We're trying to think of ways to protect these kids from the shooters.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Arm the Teachers is it?

A teacher was arrested after police responded to reports of shots fired at a high school in Georgia.

The Dalton Police Department tweeted at about 12:30 p.m. that a subject, believed to be a teacher, was barricaded in a classroom at Dalton High School. No children were hurt or in danger, police said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ter-georgia-police-respond-to-report-of-shots

Time to arm the lunch ladies!

 

[Zambo]

Time to arm the lunch ladies!

Lunch ladies won't be there for the full day. What about the older children? There could be extra lessons on weapon training. The good thing is the guns could be kept at school outside of school hours and no need to have them on the school bus.

 

[MikeG]

True there but it's a tricky balance, I think. I think it would have to be defined as an offense only if some other crime is committed or action taken, and specifically made not an excuse for search and seizure by itself.........

Yes, that was the point of making it some sort of offense rather than a registration condition. Basically saying "carry on doing what you are doing, but if it goes wrong in any way, you're in big trouble".

 

[MikeG]

A "major non-partisan study" into gun laws in the USA has said the following:

-an assault weapon ban could save 170 mass shooting deaths a year
-a law requiring universal background checks would save 1100 homicides a year
-raising the age limit for gun ownership would save 1600 homicides and suicides.

Amusingly, it also says:

There was no rigorous research of any kind about the impact of gun free zones. The research on the impact of laws making it easier to carry concealed firearms was “limited” or inconclusive”.

That lack of evidence is not an accident, but a political choice, shaped by more than two decades of opposition to federally-funded gun research from the National Rifle Association (NRA) and other gun rights advocates.

Having no research to answer crucial gun debate questions “creates a fact-free environment, where people can make claims that make problems for legislation moving forward”, Andrew Morral, the lead research on the project, said.

 

[Andy_Ross]

McConnell shelves gun bills for banking reform
© Greg Nash
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is moving to banking reform legislation — not gun control or other responses to the high school shooting in Florida — next week in the Senate.

McConnell has filed a motion to have a procedural vote Tuesday on legislation sponsored by Senate Banking Committee Chairman Mike Crapo (R-Idaho). After that, McConnell hopes to move to legislation addressing sex trafficking, according to GOP sources.

Legislation addressing the Florida high school shooting, the subject of contentious conversations between President Trump and GOP lawmakers at a White House meeting televised live on cable news Wednesday, will wait.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-for-banking-reform?__twitter_impression=true

 

[3point14]

The great state of Georgia is coming down hard on the side of the NRA:

http://www.bbc.com/news/43250091

 

[Aridas]

I was going to suggest training them in light infantry tactics and strategy. In Elementary school they just learn some basics like the use of light automatic weapons, suppressive fire to cover movement, overlapping fields of fire, maybe some of the smaller sizes of mortars. Nothing too complex, just enough to slow down an enemy until the High School Battallion can get there and relieve them.

By the time they get older, each High School should be able to operate as an independent infantry battalion, with some armored vehicles, signals/intelligence, anti-armor guided missiles, and such. The bigger schools may also have anti-aircraft capability and a handful of attack and troop transport helicopters.

It seems the only way to be safe.

...This actually reminds me of a few animes, amusingly enough.

That is why for me Sandy Hook was the end. If that could not galvanise the country to act and get agreement, nothing can.

Not while those who are sucking up to or buying into the paranoia spread by the NRA can prevent any efforts from even being discussed, let alone voted on or passed, at least.

I think the NRA have finally overplayed their hand

We'll see... next year, at the earliest, likely. After the elections. There is certainly backlash now, but it's superficial things. They're slightly weakened, but they've still got a large majority of their influence.

and I think Trump may be the first president in a long time that can actually stand up to them.

He's actually standing up to them? Err... not exactly. He's just telling people what he thinks they want to hear, at best. If there was any actual intelligence in play, I would expect him to be trying to scare up more gun sales to help compensate for the dramatic drop in gun sales after he was elected, while knowing that Congress isn't going to do anything of the sort.

I would sing his praises and apologize to theprestige if Trump actually does something useful in his generally chaotic style.

Ehh... as for me, I have no problem praising Trump for the things that I think that he did right. Unfortunately... there's far, far too few things that qualify.

The great state of Georgia is coming down hard on the side of the NRA:

http://www.bbc.com/news/43250091

Yeah... it's hard to express how much that move makes me think that those legislators are quite unfit to serve in their positions.

 

[Darat]

Was this the thread where we discussed the 'outlandish' suggestions of the NRA to 'harden' schools? One of the NRA's suggestions was to install bullet resistant glass. This was met with derision by many. Considering that the Florida school shooting suspect attempted to shootout a glass window to set-up a perch, does anybody want to reevaluate their position?

No.

 

[Meadmaker]

Two thoughts for the day:

Why is it that the GOP won't spend extra money to hire more teachers, but they will spend extra money to hire armed guards?



Second, I heard three different stories on the radio yesterday about kids being jailed or arrested for making threats against schools. One of them was a 12 year old. The others were early teens. What a horrible thing to do, and why do we do it? Well, we have to, I guess. We can't tell which ones are just jokes, and which ones are just 15 year olds mouthing off, as 15 year olds do, and which of the many, many, threats are actually a sign that a kid is actually going to acquire a gun and kill people. We just can't take a chance, so kids go to jail.

Wouldn't it be neat if it were so difficult to acquire the required weapons that we didn't have to fear any of those threats? Wouldn't it be neat if, when some guy started mouthing off about "I'll kill you all!" we could call the school psychologist, but not have to fear that this kid could actually steal dad's AR-15 and carry out his threat? Catching these kids and throwing them in the slammer is not a success story.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Wouldn't it be neat if it were so difficult to acquire the required weapons that we didn't have to fear any of those threats? Wouldn't it be neat if, when some guy started mouthing off about "I'll kill you all!" we could call the school psychologist, but not have to fear that this kid could actually steal dad's AR-15 and carry out his threat? Catching these kids and throwing them in the slammer is not a success story.

QFT. These kids being arrested is a failure, not a success.

 

[erlando]

Wouldn't it be neat if it were so difficult to acquire the required weapons that we didn't have to fear any of those threats? Wouldn't it be neat if, when some guy started mouthing off about "I'll kill you all!" we could call the school psychologist, but not have to fear that this kid could actually steal dad's AR-15 and carry out his threat? Catching these kids and throwing them in the slammer is not a success story.

Each and every time a kid goes to jail society has failed that kid monumentally.

 

[quadraginta]

Walmart is by far the most popular place to shop for groceries here, Albertsons is a distant second, and they do also sell guns and ammo (yes in the same store).

But Kroger is a grocery store.

Yeah, they go by Smith's here. My point was there are indeed grocery stores that also sell ammo. I mean they're called "Super Centers", but you can pay for groceries, and ammo, at the same time, at the same checkout line. I take no stance as that to being good or bad, but its not 100% false to say we sell ammo at grocery stores.

The lines are blurring, as the retail market changes and consolidates, but William Parcher is correct in his core point.

Kroger is a grocery store. It started out as a grocery store, and until relatively recently (when they started dipping their toe into the "superstore" market under their own brand) if you walked into any store with the "Kroger " brand as it's signage it would be selling groceries. In its rather extensive (even dizzying) history of acquisitions all the other stores that the Kroger corporation purchased for over a century were also grocery stores. That was true until they bought up Fred Myers in 1999, one of the pioneers of the "superstore" concept, and a relatively small fraction of their overall business empire.

Walmart, on the other hand, started out as a budget department store which sold (among many other things) hunting supplies including guns and ammo, and moved into selling groceries only relatively recently when it began building its own "Supercenter" line of superstores.

In short, Kroger started out as a grocery store, the businesses which still operate under that brand (aside from, possibly, the handful which are being hyped as "Kroger Marketplace") which are owned by the Kroger corporation are still grocery stores, and if you walk into one you won't be able to buy guns or ammo.

Walmart started out as a department store, and only much later moved into the grocery market. They have always sold guns and ammo, and just didn't stop doing so when they tacked grocery sections onto their stores, just as they didn't stop selling clothes or household goods.

It is true that there are stores which sell groceries that also sell guns and ammo, but it is very misleading to suggest that it is something "grocery stores" commonly do, and the Kroger grocery store chain isn't a particularly good example of that phenomenon, even if the Kroger corporation might own some business which do fall into that territory.

 

[lobosrul5]

Walmart, on the other hand, started out as a budget department store which sold (among many other things) hunting supplies including guns and ammo, and moved into selling groceries only relatively recently when it began building its own "Supercenter" line of superstores.

I guess it depends on what you mean by relatively recently. They started doing Supercenters in 1980 when they were still in only about 6 or 7 states.

Maybe you are conflating with "The Neighborhood Market" concept which didn't start until 1998.

ETA: I'm not even sure what the point of this argument is anymore. Obviously a store that just sells groceries, doesn't by definition, sell guns or ammo. But you don't have to go to a specialized gun store to buy guns or ammo in the USA, that might be a strange concept to some foreigners.

 

[pgwenthold]

I guess it depends on what you mean by relatively recently. They started doing Supercenters in 1980 when they were still in only about 6 or 7 states.

Maybe you are conflating with "The Neighborhood Market" concept which didn't start until 1998.

ETA: I'm not even sure what the point of this argument is anymore. Obviously a store that just sells groceries, doesn't by definition, sell guns or ammo. But you don't have to go to a specialized gun store to buy guns or ammo in the USA, that might be a strange concept to some foreigners.

As noted above, Kroger owns a lot of stores, with lots of different names.

The question is, if I take my Kroger shopper card, can I use it at the other stores? If so, I would say it counts as a Kroger store.

For example, it works at PayLess.

 

[Thermal]

...groceries...