Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

Aepervius said:
I removed it because I thought it would be impossible to understand from the quote alone ("no"). But I indeed do think that MM for poluting this thread with his endless bickering on howe people should not speculate, and do it TWICE at least (mental health of the guy, why palin removed the map), is an hypocrite.

I have no clue what motivated that guy, and I wanted to read the go by go, only to have one stupid bickering on speculation, and another stupid bickering on "your side are putting bullseye/target too".

So frankly, speculation are OK, I can recognize them for what they are, and skip them.

but the bickering ? Total loss of time. Especially when the main guy "pouting" about speculating does it from time to time.
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I believe there is some kind of difference between speculating on the mental health of the shooter, based on the shooter's youtube account and actions and speculation based on the poster's own biases, based on websites and comments that have yet to be shown to connect to the shooter.

Apparently there are a few people here who don't see the difference between speculation based on evidence directly linked to the incident and speculation based on rnot-yet-connected factoids.

One could call this confirmation bias (let's face it, there has been an inordinate amount of that in this thread) and ignorance of how the correlation =/= causation maxim actually works.


Have I speculated? Sure. I speculated that the shooter is simply anti-Gov and this was merely the easiest point of attack against said Gov't. Has nothing to do with the particular political leanings of the victims or said shooter. Now, that speculation is at least based on something we know about the shooter - his youtube videos. Speculation, sure. But not quite as wild as pulling in accusations that this is a result of political posturing by specific individuals. The link to that just hasn't been provided yet.

I know it's hard, but do try to keep your personal political biases out of the discussion (I believe that's what Matt, et al, were attempting to express).
 
Thunder...on the map thing, that has got to be one of the stupidest rants I've ever heard.

We have to stop the rhetoric while spewing even more huh?
That's your idea of a solution?
 
Okay......let's suppose that Jared was a member of political party _______________. What of it? What real use will that information be to anyone? It's not like you could, or should, lock all people of that political party. So why does it matter?

Same deal if he was a conspiracy theorist. It might be interesting from a psychological standpoint but is irrelevant from a policy standpoint.
 
lionking said:
Fox News just reported the shooter is an atheist.

Just great.
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Because?

Is it the quote about the money: In God We Trust?

I took that to mean he was mad that we aren't on the gold standard.

ETA: Here is the quote in context:
"No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" Loughner writes. "No! I won't trust in God!"
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This simply refers to the fact that the US dollar is not backed by gold or silver and that it says "In God We Trust" on it.
 
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Interesting that you went from this:

I'm not up for it at the moment but someone needs to monitor the conspiranoid web forums to see how they're handling the shooting of congresswoman Giffords and Federal Judge Rolls. There is a good chance the shooter came from their extended family and information they possess on this might be interesting.
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To this:

Travis said:
Okay......let's suppose that Jared was a member of political party _______________. What of it? What real use will that information be to anyone? It's not like you could, or should, lock all people of that political party. So why does it matter?

Same deal if he was a conspiracy theorist. It might be interesting from a psychological standpoint but is irrelevant from a policy standpoint.
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LibraryLady said:
I saw an interview with one of the men. He had his own gun, but didn't want to use it, and just tackled the guy instead. He didn't know that Loughner had a knife as well, and said Loughner was whining that he was hurting him. Somehow the guy didn't care.
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Based on that: Murderer was taken down by a man and a woman. At some fairly quick point another man (medically related) came to help and the woman took and de-magazined the gun. The third man came in(the one you note-first from outside he had been in Walgreens and heard the shots - hoped it was fireworks, but..) and mostly took over with part of the holding down as the one with med background went to checking other wounded/dead. That combines two reports (as of ca. 1:30 last night) with no conflicts between the two. Have not been awake till now, so do not know any further/any changes.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
I speculated that the shooter is simply anti-Gov and this was merely the easiest point of attack against said Gov't. Has nothing to do with the particular political leanings of the victims or said shooter.
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I completely agree with this speculation. However, who has been fueling anti-government sentient lately?
I don't doubt that some random Republican could become the victim of a nutjob incited by such rhetoric, almost as easily as some random Democrat.

Politicians should not use rhetoric to portray their opponents as personally evil, or as traitors, or dangerous extremists, or similar. Politicians should show their opponents respect. Political extremists and madmen alike often have delusions that their crimes secretly have support from the mainstream, and mainstream politicians should do what they can to dissuade such delusions.
 
truethat said:
you wanna give that horse one last kick before you are through with it? It's only been dead for 13 hours now?

Yeah, get your point. I think you are over simplifying it here. Any out burst or assumption of what the man's affiliations were, are not a reflection of a need to have him be the "other." rather they are a reflection on the state of us at this time and how people practically anticipate people starting to assassinate political figures. Why? Because that's the direction we've been headed for a while now. The knee jerk judgment is not so much evidence of a an irrational prejudice but a rational fear.

It's sad
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this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
LashL said:
Unfortunately, surgeon Dr. Peter Rhee, said quite clearly several hours ago that the shot went from one side of her head to the other and through her brain. If that's accurate , and I haven't seen any reason to believe otherwise yet, it does not bode well at all for recovery. :(
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When I was in the army, we had a guy who got shot in the eye with a G3 (7,62NATO), and the bullet went straight through the brain and out the other side of the head.

The only permanent injury he sustained was blindness on the one eye. Sometimes you're just lucky.
 
Puppycow said:
Because?

Is it the quote about the money: In God We Trust?

I took that to mean he was mad that we aren't on the gold standard.

ETA: Here is the quote in context:

This simply refers to the fact that the US dollar is not backed by gold or silver and that it says "In God We Trust" on it.
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I agree with you. I thought his Statement was referring to current paper currency. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if he was atheist. His bizarre statements With "BCE" and "ADE" (Which I don't think is an actual thing) make it hard to tell.

The guy was sick. It doesn't matter what his mental illness fixated on. This incident reminds me when people were attempting to blame violent video games for the columbine tragedy.
 
It will surprise nobody here I am sure that Phelps band of merry ******** are happy about this event and planning on being at the funerals.
Warning: Their flier may make you sick:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/20110108_AZ-Shooter-Connecting-the-Dots.pdf

It is entitled "God sent the shooter" .... sick freaks.

Edited by LashL: 
To properly mask profanity. Please see Rule 10 and let the auto-censor do its job.
 
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novice skeptic said:
I'm thinking with olive oil. And is there anything that attracts scorpions or rattlesnakes?
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I originally left out the stopping for a break wherever their is a nice anthill.. Do ants like olive oil-maybe with a bit of maple syrup.....

The scorpion and rattlesnakes are more if you disturb them suddenly. Without attributing true thinking to them, they do not "want" to waste venom on something they can't eat - only if they have to ("think" they have to) will they strike. [venom needs water, water is rare-rareish in desert you do not waste it and they can't replenish from what they can't eat]
 
from the BBC article :

"Mr Dupnik said law enforcement officials were not convinced that the gunman was working alone."

They are probably womndering if "jared has aides".


*Cough*

OK I'll go out and punish myself.
 
joobz said:
This incident reminds me when people were attempting to blame violent video games for the columbine tragedy.
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It all comes down to censorship in the end.

For me, it's not worth repealing the 1st Amendment because a schizophrenic got violent.

Makes as much sense as banning dogs after the Son of Sam killings.
 
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Aepervius said:
"Mr Dupnik said law enforcement officials were not convinced that the gunman was working alone."

They are probably womndering if "jared has aides".
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While it appears unlikely, it sometimes happens that disturbed people get used by others for their own twisted purposes. It is the duty of the police to make sure this was not the case.
 
WildCat said:
It all comes down to censorship in the end.

For me, it's not worth repealing the 1st Amendment because a schizophrenic got violent.

Makes as much sense as banning dogs after the Son of Sam killings.
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Talking dogs should be banned.
 
fuelair said:
Mmmmmm, I'm thinking it might be nice to release Jared with his guns in their midst at one of the funerals. Then snipe or re:capture him before he harms any real people.
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As the idiots from WBC are, by and large, lawyers I have a question.
If they actually believe that their god sent Jared, why dont they represent him gratis? Or at least pay for his defense?
 
PS looked at the flier, doesn't make me sick - just pinhead crapeaters upset that their little dog can't do anything re:stuff they don't like. Am curious about this person they think came after them - hope he did, sorry if he did and failed. Hope someone does. Looking forward to the grave P-party for their incestuous gay father figure!
 
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