• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Psychic Detectives are real

CFlarson,

That makes no sense. The psychic has police veterans who investigated the case vouching for them, so why should they have to prove this to a skeptic? If the skeptic thinks the claim is false it's their job to question the police who are vouching for the psychic. The psychic is not skeptical of their own claim, so why would they be the ones questioning the police who they worked with on the case. That makes no sense.

Schwartz is using a medium and a sitter. The medium is blind to the sitter and the deceased. The sitter could be 500 miles away. The sitter knows about the deceased and the sitter verifies the information from the medium. This is how a blind study works.

I could call all studies in every field fake if I question wether the participants in the study are blind without any evidence. If you did make this claim you would be seen as a nutcase. The guy has zero evidence that the mediums know about the deceased or the sitter.
 
polomontana said:
When a person dies, does the waveform associated with the subatomic particles that make up your body die as well? The answer is no. We no from the double slit experiment that the fullness of the wave function is hidden when decoherence occurs. The energy associated with the paricles in your body doesn't die. Energy can't be created nor destroyed. This energy could also be associated with dark energy or dark matter which we don't know exactly what it is or it's properties but it makes up over 90% of our universe.

We know that there's a zero point energy associated with every subatomic particle in your body. This energy is always present. So when you die, does this energy die as well? Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

Amazingly bad physics argument, dearie. Let me guess (or maybe I'm psychic, too!): You have no formal traning in physics and you did very badly in physics and/or chemistry when you were exposed to it. How did I do? Pretty well, considering what you wrote.

Matter has nothing to do with any spiritual crap you may be wont to believe. No, matter, as you are composed of, never dies. The C, H, O, N, Ca, etc in your body remains as it is after you die. It doesn't go anywhere except for being available again to whatever needy process finds it first.

Death and decomposition have nothing to do with claptrap about surviving death. There is no "decoherence" and there is no "dark energy" or dark matter in you.

Your post is the type that gets us skeptics fairly riled. Most of us take the time, patience and care to read up and understand what we write about. People like you, however, feel that spouting any nonsense that sounded good between drinks should be venerated by all, including ourselves. Your writings indicate that you know nothing of science or investigative methodology.

And, dearie, that's not what the double-slit experiment shows anyway. Read up. What have you got to lose?
 
Last edited:
No Christine,

I'm saying after death you become aware of the rest of your wavefunction that was hidden from you while you were in a decohered state (human body). This is why many near death experiences talk about becoming aware as they leave consciousness. Death = the unraveling of decohernce.
 
Not one psychic has ever been called to testify as an expert witness during a court proceding. Why? Because psychics cannot verify their claims in court. Why? Because their claims of psychic ability are not scientifically valid.
 
polomontana said:
When a person dies, does the waveform associated with the subatomic particles that make up your body die as well? The answer is no. We no from the double slit experiment that the fullness of the wave function is hidden when decoherence occurs. The energy associated with the paricles in your body doesn't die. Energy can't be created nor destroyed. This energy could also be associated with dark energy or dark matter which we don't know exactly what it is or it's properties but it makes up over 90% of our universe.

We know that there's a zero point energy associated with every subatomic particle in your body. This energy is always present. So when you die, does this energy die as well? Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

This must be one of the most willfully ignorant and misleading understandings of physics I have ever seen posted (Well, this month, at least).

Have any math to back up the relation of these laws and life after death? You know, the E Word, evidence.
 
A little bit about quantum decoherence:

In quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence is the mechanism by which quantum systems interact with their environments to exhibit probabilistically additive behavior - a feature of classical physics - and give the appearance of wavefunction collapse. Decoherence occurs when a system interacts with its environment, or any complex external system, in such a thermodynamically irreversible way that ensures different elements in the quantum superposition of the system+environment's wavefunction can no longer interfere with each other. Decoherence has been a subject of active research for the last two decades.

Decoherence does not provide a mechanism for the actual wave function collapse; rather it provides a mechanism for the appearance of wavefunction collapse. The quantum nature of the system is simply "leaked" into the environment so that a total superposition of the wavefunction still exists, but exists beyond the realm of measurement.

Decoherence represents a major problem for the practical realization of quantum computers, since these heavily rely on the undisturbed evolution of quantum coherences.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence

Have you ever heard of theoretical physics slimething? Have you ever read about the double slit experiment or Schrodingers equation? Just curious.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
polomontana said:
No Christine,

I'm saying after death you become aware of the rest of your wavefunction that was hidden from you while you were in a decohered state (human body). This is why many near death experiences talk about becoming aware as they leave consciousness. Death = the unraveling of decohernce.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand this. After death, you make no measurements and are aware of nothing. Your claim seems to be that after death we transcend to a state where our consciousness is completely coherent, where we make all sorts of measurements at once. Why would you think that?
 
polomontana said:
No Christine,

I'm saying after death you become aware of the rest of your wavefunction that was hidden from you while you were in a decohered state (human body). This is why many near death experiences talk about becoming aware as they leave consciousness. Death = the unraveling of decohernce.
Click to expand...

What is the meaning of "unraveling of decoherence"?

Please stop - you are making yourself look ridiculous. There are people on this forum who understand the wave function and decoherence.

This statement about decoherence isn't right - it isn't even wrong (with apologies to Mr. Pauli).
 
polomontana said:
A little bit about quantum decoherence:

In quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence is the mechanism by which quantum systems interact with their environments to exhibit probabilistically additive behavior - a feature of classical physics - and give the appearance of wavefunction collapse. Decoherence occurs when a system interacts with its environment, or any complex external system, in such a thermodynamically irreversible way that ensures different elements in the quantum superposition of the system+environment's wavefunction can no longer interfere with each other. Decoherence has been a subject of active research for the last two decades.

Decoherence does not provide a mechanism for the actual wave function collapse; rather it provides a mechanism for the appearance of wavefunction collapse. The quantum nature of the system is simply "leaked" into the environment so that a total superposition of the wavefunction still exists, but exists beyond the realm of measurement.

Decoherence represents a major problem for the practical realization of quantum computers, since these heavily rely on the undisturbed evolution of quantum coherences.

Have you ever heard of theoretical physics slimething? Have you ever read about the double slit experiment or Schrodingers equation? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Uh oh folks. We've got a Wikipedia Scholar on our hands. Stright cut and paste job, nice one, you've really convinced me that this has anything to do with your previous claims.

"Evidence? Um... OH LOOK shiney thing!!"
 
It's very simple, classical objects (like your body) just appear classical because of decoherence. This is why you are conscious of "things" because decoherence causes the interference patterns that are associated with the particles in your body to remain hidden but they are still present. So your body is just a reflection of a more connected quantum nature. This is also do to entanglement. This is why the holographic principle shows up in alot of these theories.

This is shown in the double slit experiment. When a measurement occurs you get the appearence of a collapse of the wavefunction but the fullness of the wavefunction is still present it's just one state is observed.
 
Last edited:
polomontana said:
It's very simple, classical objects (like your body) just appear classical because of decoherence. This is why you are conscious of "things" because decoherence causes the interfernce patterns that are associated with the particles in your body to remain hidden but they are still present. So your body is just a reflection of a more connected quantum nature. This is also do to entanglement. This is why the holographic principle shows up in alot of these theories.
Click to expand...
None of this has anything to do with fake psychics.
 
JoeEllison said:
None of this has anything to do with fake psychics.
Click to expand...

I hereby suggest a new lingo term: polomontana is attempting to pull a Step 3: Profits! on us.

A Step 3: Profits! involves starting with a claim, then abruptly diverting to another subject with no apparent link to the claim trying to be established.

In the present scenario:
Original claim: psychics are real, the TV says so!
New claim: Quantum entangmlement thingamabob.

Hence:

1) Quantum entangmlwemtn thingamabob;
2) ?????
3) Psychics are real!

No explanation of the origin of this strategy's name will be provided.

Weee! I sound all intelligent and stuff!
 
polomontana said:
CFlarson,

That makes no sense. The psychic has police veterans who investigated the case vouching for them, so why should they have to prove this to a skeptic? If the skeptic thinks the claim is false it's their job to question the police who are vouching for the psychic. The psychic is not skeptical of their own claim, so why would they be the ones questioning the police who they worked with on the case. That makes no sense.
Click to expand...


Police veterans are not vouching for psychics here. You are. You bear the burden of providing credible evidence to support the claims that you made in your OP.
 
polomontana said:
It's very simple, classical objects (like your body) just appear classical because of decoherence. This is why you are conscious of "things" because decoherence causes the interference patterns that are associated with the particles in your body to remain hidden but they are still present. So your body is just a reflection of a more connected quantum nature. This is also do to entanglement. This is why the holographic principle shows up in alot of these theories.

This is shown in the double slit experiment. When a measurement occurs you get the appearence of a collapse of the wavefunction but the fullness of the wavefunction is still present it's just one state is observed.
Click to expand...

Have it your way. Show us the math. Otherwise, prepare to eat crow.
 
polomontana said:
CFlarson,

That makes no sense. The psychic has police veterans who investigated the case vouching for them, so why should they have to prove this to a skeptic? If the skeptic thinks the claim is false it's their job to question the police who are vouching for the psychic. The psychic is not skeptical of their own claim, so why would they be the ones questioning the police who they worked with on the case. That makes no sense.
Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question:

How do you find out just which parts of the psychic's messages are correct, and which are not?

polomontana said:
Schwartz is using a medium and a sitter. The medium is blind to the sitter and the deceased. The sitter could be 500 miles away. The sitter knows about the deceased and the sitter verifies the information from the medium. This is how a blind study works.
Click to expand...

No, that's exactly what it doesn't mean. You have completely and utterly misunderstood what "blind study" means.

You can never participate in an experiment that you yourself conduct. Schwartz knows that, but he chooses to make a mockery out of his own research. His experiments are not blinded, in any way, form or shape.

Schwartz has very much a vested interest in proving that spirits can talk to psychics. Do you agree?

polomontana said:
I could call all studies in every field fake if I question wether the participants in the study are blind without any evidence. If you did make this claim you would be seen as a nutcase. The guy has zero evidence that the mediums know about the deceased or the sitter.
Click to expand...

You clearly haven't read anything Schwartz' experiments. Here are the sitters in Schwartz' tests:

HBO-readings:
  • Patricia Price, a school teacher living a two hour drive from Tucson.
  • Ronnie Nathanson, appliance saleswoman at Sears, Tucson.
Both sitters' identity is known. Also, personal information is reported in the book (e.g. Pat's husband is Mike who drives and rebuilds Harley Davidson bikes and is later reported killed). Not much reason for anonymity here, is there?

Miraval readings:
  • Patricia Price, same person as in the HBO-reading (an unacceptable choice, btw)
  • Elayne Russek (Linda Russek's mother, also an unacceptable choice)
  • Diane Goldner, author of "Infinite Grace" (who actually meets with the mediums the day before the experiment!)
  • Heather Rist, an undergraduate at the University of Arizona (she's working for Schwartz', for chrissakes!)
  • Christopher, a sometime staff member of Schwartz' (duh!)
  • An unnamed physician (the Pretty in Pink reading, which is all we hear from that reading)

The other four sitters are neither identified in the book, nor is their data described. We don't know what happened here.

Canyon Ranch completely silent readings:

  • Juliet Speisman, an undergraduate student of Schwartz'. She also had a friend who had been read by JE, and had been trying to get a reading from JE for two years.
  • Sabrina Geoffrion, a member of Schwartz' research and administrative team. Lots of personal information is given.
  • Janna Excel, a grief counsellor at a local cemetary and leads a large monthly NDE experience group at a local church.
  • Terri Raymond, with a background in clinical hypnosis. A friend of Linda Russek's.
  • Lynn Ferro, a research coordinator for Dr. Andrew Weil.
  • Gary Schwartz himself (completely unacceptable!)

Do you understand that you are wrong?
 
Joe Ellison,

Life afte death is directly connected to psychic ability. This is the reason why many skeptics resist it, because it has direct implications that may clash with their pre-existing belief systems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom