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Psychic Detectives are real

polomontana said:
Joe Ellison,

Life afte death is directly connected to psychic ability. This is the reason why many skeptics resist it, because it has direct implications that may clash with their pre-existing belief systems.
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I stay out of religion threads in here because I have no factual basis to argue my beliefs to skeptics with... which obviously the forum of the world's most famous skeptic is going to demand.

Since you can't fully disprove the existence of God, I can't actually be proven wrong. Sure as sweatsocks doesn't mean I'm going to come in here calling everyone close-minded heretics whose lack of faith is going to cost them a trip to devil world... see, because I understand that IN A SKEPTIC'S FORUM THEY'RE GOING TO WANT REAL, UNFETTERED, SOLID EVIDENCE!!

And that... without it... posting my personal beliefs as fact makes me look like I needed help from my short-bus driver to turn on the computer. And that the only thing worse than posting no evidence is posting dubious evidence that can be debunked by most of us in seconds with a simple google search, much less by the legitimate experts in their fields among us.
 
CFlarson,

Your post proves my point. You just gave us information about the sitter. You have provided any evidence where the medium knows the sitter or the deceased. Schwartz does blind, double blind and triple blind studies. I suggest you go to his site and read the studies instead of just buying the skeptics propaganda.

From his site:

In January of 2007, a paper describing a triple-blind study conducted by the VERITAS Research Program that achieved positive results was published in the peer-reviewed journal, EXPLORE: the Journal of Science & Healing.

http://veritas.arizona.edu/

I suggest you go to the site and read over all the studies. Remember also that these studies shoud be more widespread but they are not because of closed minded skepticism.
 
polomontana said:
Joe Ellison,

Life afte death is directly connected to psychic ability. This is the reason why many skeptics resist it, because it has direct implications that may clash with their pre-existing belief systems.
Click to expand...

No. Psychic resist it because it is totally and 100% unproven claptrap. If a psychic and could really uncover a fact unknown to everybody else by normal sleuthing or jsut plain read the news paper, it would be rubbed in those of the skeptic, documented, and linked on every psychic web site.

it ain't ask yourself about it.

And oh I am a quantum physicists. But I can do nice reasonement like you :

Miss / Mister P
Psychic are reall ! You guy all fear death but there is an after life !
(by the way someone EXPLAIN me why skeptic would fear that there is an afterlife. I would be delighted).

we skeptic
Bring us proof !

Miss (or mister) P says us :
You know after death the meta mustard function collapse. And since mustard is yellow, and the sun is yellow and the sun dries the corpse of people, then it turn out that I SEE DEAD YELLOW PEOPLE ! But Psychic don't see yellow ! True fact ! And so Psychic see the dead people as they are. Thus psychic are real.

We skeptic
That make no sense at all

M/Mrs P again :
But you will agreee that mustard is hot, sometimes so hot that you can eat spoon of it ? [/b]

We skeptic

......What the hell has this to do with psychic being real.

M/Mrs P

(more rambling without bringing any proof

We skeptic
(Inser picture of kitten)
 
polomontana,

You are making a complete fool of yourself. Please take the time and effort to improve your knowledge of physics, scepticism, "psychic" tricks of the trade, double blind experiments and popular culture (if you think Psychic Detectives and the Larry King show have any evidential value you are sadly mistaken).

And yes, Wikipedia has its uses but you obviously don't understand the concepts with which you sprinkle your posts.
 
The only NDE peer reviewed article I know for which the conclusion are clear, was the one where they had hidden an object at a palce where nobody could see it except patient having the NDE. No patient had been able to describe it.

Instead of copying the link about an answer to a critic from a peer reviewed article (how more remote can this be ?) how about giving directly the referecen to the article ???

here it is :

1 Van Lommel W., Van Wees R., Meyers V., Elfferich I. Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands. The Lancet 2001; 358: 2039-2045.

IMHO the study does not prove anything about persisting after death, but hey what do I know...
 
polomontana said:
Joe Ellison,

Life afte death is directly connected to psychic ability. This is the reason why many skeptics resist it, because it has direct implications that may clash with their pre-existing belief systems.
Click to expand...
You keep spouting this nonsense. Repetition doesn't make your posts any less ridiculous.
 
Aepervius said:
Miss / Mister P
Psychic are reall ! You guy all fear death but there is an after life !
(by the way someone EXPLAIN me why skeptic would fear that there is an afterlife. I would be delighted).

we skeptic
Bring us proof !

Miss (or mister) P says us :
You know after death the meta mustard function collapse. And since mustard is yellow, and the sun is yellow and the sun dries the corpse of people, then it turn out that I SEE DEAD YELLOW PEOPLE ! But Psychic don't see yellow ! True fact ! And so Psychic see the dead people as they are. Thus psychic are real.

We skeptic
That make no sense at all

M/Mrs P again :
But you will agreee that mustard is hot, sometimes so hot that you can eat spoon of it ? [/b]

We skeptic

......What the hell has this to do with psychic being real.

M/Mrs P

(more rambling without bringing any proof

We skeptic
(Inser picture of kitten)
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F'n dead on. Bravo.
 
polomontana said:
CFlarson,

Your post proves my point. You just gave us information about the sitter. You have provided any evidence where the medium knows the sitter or the deceased. Schwartz does blind, double blind and triple blind studies. I suggest you go to his site and read the studies instead of just buying the skeptics propaganda.

From his site:

In January of 2007, a paper describing a triple-blind study conducted by the VERITAS Research Program that achieved positive results was published in the peer-reviewed journal, EXPLORE: the Journal of Science & Healing.

http://veritas.arizona.edu/

I suggest you go to the site and read over all the studies. Remember also that these studies shoud be more widespread but they are not because of closed minded skepticism.
Click to expand...



http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-01/medium.html
 
Aepervious,

Why would someone who experienced an N.D.E. be aware of hidden object? You have N.D.E.'s that describe everything that's happening around their bodies. The way you test this is have a designated person come in when one of these procedures take place and then you have them place a wallet or something on the bed where the person is having their N.D.E.

If the person mentions this if they are revived then there you go. There's already a ton of evidence to support N.D.E.'s. If this were to occur, I'm sure the skeptic will try to explain it away to support their belief system. This is how dogma works and some skeptics are dogmatic about their skepticism.
 
polomontana said:
Joe Ellison,

Life afte death is directly connected to psychic ability. This is the reason why many skeptics resist it, because it has direct implications that may clash with their pre-existing belief systems.
Click to expand...

Whether "skeptics" "resist" life after death or psychic ability has nothing to do with "belief". It's all about the evidence...and to date there isn't any evidence.

And this is just so much nonsense, it makes my head hurt:

It's very simple, classical objects (like your body) just appear classical because of decoherence. This is why you are conscious of "things" because decoherence causes the interference patterns that are associated with the particles in your body to remain hidden but they are still present. So your body is just a reflection of a more connected quantum nature. This is also do to entanglement. This is why the holographic principle shows up in alot of these theories.
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polomontana said:
There's already a ton of evidence to support N.D.E.'s.
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I just died and came back and while I was in heaven Jesus told me you're full of crap.

And since that's just as solid and verifiable as every shred of the evidence you're somehow assigning a weight to I guess you have to believe it. :p
 
polomontana said:
Aepervious,

Why would someone who experienced an N.D.E. be aware of hidden object? You have N.D.E.'s that describe everything that's happening around their bodies. The way you test this is have a designated person come in when one of these procedures take place and then you have them place a wallet or something on the bed where the person is having their N.D.E.

If the person mentions this if they are revived then there you go. There's already a ton of evidence to support N.D.E.'s. If this were to occur, I'm sure the skeptic will try to explain it away to support their belief system. This is how dogma works and some skeptics are dogmatic about their skepticism.
Click to expand...
Links to the evidence?
 
well polomontana i didn't believe in psychics either before i read your posts. unlike these idiots here i've studied the evidence with an open mind and i see that you must be right.

i'd just like to thank you for opening my eyes to reality. i used to be scared that there was an afterlife and i tried my hardest to say there wasn't because i was worried that when i died i would go to heaven and experience total happiness and know the secrets of the universe. i really really hoped this wasn't true because i was really looking forward to just rotting in the ground and never existing ever again. plus the thought that once i'd died, that was it, and after a few decades more there would be no memory left of me like as if everything i had done had never happened... well this thought filled me with joy. so much so that i stubbornly clinged on to this stupid belief system all because i was scared to live forever in eternal bliss!
but thanks to your quantum physics argument i now see that i was wrong. again, thank you!

i've started to realise that this applies to everything. i used to be really scared of the thought that their was a higher purpose to reality and that there was some overarching plan for it all. the thought that we weren't just lumps of self aware carbon on a massive lump of dirt and that there was such thing as justice and magic filled me with terror at the sheer meaningfulness and fairness of it all. i really wished that the universe was a cold unfeeling place where bad things happened for no good reason and no one was in control of it all. i had this belief system to protect me from the reality because i just couldnt come to terms with the fact that there definitely is a god, magic is real, monks can levitate, psychics can talk to dead people etc and i used my atheist materialistic beliefs to shield me from this reality because doing so provided some comfort to me psychologically.........


ask your self people which of these scenarios do you find more terrifying?

a) the thought that there is defintely life after death, that it will all work out in the end and you will go to heaven.

or

b)the thought that when you die that's it. no chance to do over the mistakes you made in your life and eventually everyone will forget everything about you and you will never exist again.

which is scarier? for me it was 'a' so you can imagine the shock to see someone like polomontana come along and prove that a is true. but now i see it i cant understand how i could have ever have been so wilfully deluded as to have thought otherwise.


unless hell exists as well of course. now that is scary.
 
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polomontana said:
A little bit about quantum decoherence:

In quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence is the mechanism by which quantum systems interact with their environments to exhibit probabilistically additive behavior - a feature of classical physics - and give the appearance of wavefunction collapse. Decoherence occurs when a system interacts with its environment, or any complex external system, in such a thermodynamically irreversible way that ensures different elements in the quantum superposition of the system+environment's wavefunction can no longer interfere with each other. Decoherence has been a subject of active research for the last two decades.

Decoherence does not provide a mechanism for the actual wave function collapse; rather it provides a mechanism for the appearance of wavefunction collapse. The quantum nature of the system is simply "leaked" into the environment so that a total superposition of the wavefunction still exists, but exists beyond the realm of measurement.

Decoherence represents a major problem for the practical realization of quantum computers, since these heavily rely on the undisturbed evolution of quantum coherences.

Have you ever heard of theoretical physics slimething? Have you ever read about the double slit experiment or Schrodingers equation? Just curious.
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Speaking as a fellow forumite and not a mod, I have to say it is particularly bad form to copy and paste something from anywhere and not link to it. In some cases it is a violation of copyright/fair use.

It's also intellectually dishonest to claim to have an understanding of something by copying material and implying, by omitting the source, it is your own thought.

:eusa_liar:
 
polomontana said:
Why would someone who experienced an N.D.E. be aware of hidden object?
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Because they claim they can. ;) There's one lady who claimed to have floated through the hospital roof and visualized a shoe there. That's one of my favorite NDE stories. Completely unverifiable, of course. IIRC, later investigations revealed that the nurse made the claim and that she wasn't even employed at the hospital when the event occurred.

There's already a ton of evidence to support N.D.E.'s.
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Ya gonna post some, then? Cite something that hasn't already been debunked, OK?

So, dear, are you or are you not going to post the mathematics behind your completely errant understanding of quantum mechanics? Please, including comparisons of the measured energy states vs the theoretical. We could design a test to tell whether an atom came from dead or living matter!!! It would be really neat to see waveforms that detect the fact that they are part of a living system that just went dead. Now, that's something I didn't learn in Phys Chem!

BTW, your link is to a nonsensical letter by van Lommel, not the original paper. Even his letter does not establish that NDE's are true out-of-body experiences. That's his opinion and, frankly, from even his own recitation of his evidentiary basis, it's a stretch. He contradicts himself when he states that brain death is achieved in < 1 minute but earlier states that CPR can be started up to 6 minutes after loss of circulation before permanent brain injury occurs. Even if you believed his wild speculation, he has yet to explain why 86% of the test subjects did NOT have NDEs.

You just have to do better. Really.
 
polomontana,

I see on US TV all the time high-profile cases of missing persons or spectacular murders.

Your claim is that there are people who can by psychic means find the missing and identify the murderers and, further, that there are police officers who are convinced that this is possible.

Why are these cases not solved? :confused:
 
Normal Dude said:
This must be one of the most willfully ignorant and misleading understandings of physics I have ever seen posted (Well, this month, at least).

Have any math to back up the relation of these laws and life after death? You know, the E Word, evidence.
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Welcome to JREF. Don't worry, you'll see much more of this ;)
 
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