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Split Thread Pronouns and expectations

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Ziggurat said:
I said sexuality, not sex. These things are not synonymous. You might use he/she pronouns to refer to gender and not sex, but I don't. I use he/she pronouns to refer to sex. Not gender, and not sexuality.

And you didn't answer my question: how does my use of pronouns interfere with their life?
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You don't think your hatred doesn't affect others?
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Let's cut to the quick and make everybody go nude from the waist down. Then we can made decisions about them without having to look at their faces.
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The complaint isn't that we can't reliably observe a person's biological sex just by looking at them. The complaint is that we *can* reliably observe that, but some people want us to pretend we can't (or else agree that we shouldn't; either way, it's absurd). Your proposal, of making that observation even more reliable, doesn't solve the problem of preferred pronouns.
 
There is no way I am going to refer to someone who is obviously male, or indeed someone I know to be male, as "she". None at all. For reasons it's not worth my going into yet again. So deal with it. It's not my problem.
 
Rolfe said:
There is no way I am going to refer to someone who is obviously male, or indeed someone I know to be male, as "she". None at all. For reasons it's not worth my going into yet again. So deal with it. It's not my problem.
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No, it's not your problem. It is other people's problem. It has more to with awful environment you wish to create.
 
It may boil back to a percentages problem.

0% of the people I know are trans.
.5% is accepted as the worldwide trans segment.

If 50% of the people in an area are trans this pronoun stuff kinda makes sense.
If 5% are and most don't come into contact with them, not so much. At least for most.

For those with friends or contacts that are trans by all means gender, misgender or feed fantasy to your hearts content. It makes sense kinda in your social circles.
You create the environment where you are. Hopefully not an awful environment.

But please refrain from dumping your demands on those of us that trans doesn't affect. I can't "misgender" in person and won't online. It doesn't make us hateful because it barely applies.
 
acbytesla said:
No, it's not your problem. It is other people's problem. It has more to with awful environment you wish to create.
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You have yet to explain why it's actually a problem at all, or how and why it creates an "awful environment".
 
theprestige said:
Counterpoint: What creates an awful environment is people insisting on contrafactual "preferred" pronouns, over the misgivings of everyone who wants to just keep using the usual pronouns in the usual way.
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Males invading female intimate spaces when those women are in vulnerable states also creates an awful environment.

acbytesla doesn't really care about that, though. Because it was never actually about "awful environments".
 
theprestige said:
Counterpoint: What creates an awful environment is people insisting on contrafactual "preferred" pronouns, over the misgivings of everyone who wants to just keep using the usual pronouns in the usual way.
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Oh, so you think it is acceptable to call someone George who says his name is John? It's not exactly difficult to be nice and refer to someone as they would like. I mean what difference does it make to you to be polite and respectful?
 
theprestige said:
Counterpoint: What creates an awful environment is people insisting on contrafactual "preferred" pronouns, over the misgivings of everyone who wants to just keep using the usual pronouns in the usual way.
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When I arrived at a college for a summer school course one of the catering staff, a young lad, was wearing a badge reading "she/her". He had long hair, but so had a fair proportion of other males at the college, and nothing else at all to suggest a feminine identity. He seemed to be a nice lad, always a ready smile and helpful with advice on food choices and availability. I saw him dancing the lady's part in the ceilidh dances, good luck to him. But no way would or could I ever think of him as "she". It's ridiculous. It's compelled speech. The demand in itself creates an atmosphere.
 
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