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Split Thread Pronouns and expectations

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As a small side note, I'd like to add a question about their local laws regarding self harm, given the rest of that.

As another side note, I've seen Christians (and paid actors) acting out Jesus carrying a cross plenty of times and there's nothing about the act itself that would normally ring any alarm bells on its own because of that. It's unusual, but not a sign of something actually being wrong in and of itself, even if one also called themself Jesus. Rather, that just makes it seem more like LARPing or rehearsing the role for later. As for the friends agreeing to nail them? That's pretty explicitly against the law pretty much everywhere.
Hey, it's religion. They do a lot of batcrap crazy things. And not all of them are Jim Jones, Andrea Yates or are a part of Heaven's Gate.
I think Christian beliefs are just as nutty as Scientology, Mormonism, Islam etc. But we accept them don't we?
 
Why I don't call out trans people for identifying their sex differently than how it was identified at their birth.

Now John Freestone thinks someone who does this is deluded and has a mental illness. That it's the equivalent of them saying they are Jesus Christ or a feral dog and should be treated as having some psychosis.

Which made me think. How should I treat somebody who told me something I might view as crazy? Not that any one of these people are actually crazy. I mean it is very possible that Jesus Christ is the person's name. And if he is carrying a wooden cross, he is just taking his religious beliefs seriously.

Now I know the Christian mythology as well or better than 90 percent of the people that call themselves Christians. I think their mythology is batcrap crazy. I mean snakes don't talk. Neither do donkeys or burning bushes. Humans don't walk on water, turn magically into salt, or live to be 900 years of age. All written in the Bible. As is beating your children, having them stoned to death, having female sex slaves. And killing your neighbor for collecting firewood on the Sabbath. And this barely touches the surface of their insane beliefs. But I dont think just have such a crazy belief makes them crazy. Maybe killing their neighbors because as they refuse to go along with this insanity as they have been doing for thousands of years is crazy. At least trannies aren't doing that. I don't see a trannie nationalist movement. But there is a Christian Nationalist movement.

Still, when a Christian says stupid things like "may God bless you". I don't correct them. I smile and say, "have a nice day." Why be confrontational? What could I achieve by correcting them? For sure, they wouldn't be interested in being my friend if I did that. And I learned a long time ago to try and make everyone your friend. It's better than having them be apathetic towards me or worse, be my enemy.

What if a friend started barking like a dog? The question is, is their behavior dysfunctional? Maybe, this is some kind of role playing game. I can get into games. Regardless, I would still be nice to them. I may or may not go along with them. But I would be kind and respectful. Never a jerk.
 
What if a friend started barking like a dog? The question is, is their behavior dysfunctional? Maybe, this is some kind of role playing game. I can get into games. Regardless, I would still be nice to them. I may or may not go along with them. But I would be kind and respectful. Never a jerk.

Okay. But would you demand all your other friends announce which breed they are, to make your friend's role playing game more fun?
 
Okay. But would you demand all your other friends announce which breed they are, to make your friend's role playing game more fun?
Maybe it's a sex game. I have heard of people pretending to be pets. Definitely not the kinkiest thing I've heard.
 
As a small side note, I'd like to add a question about their local laws regarding self harm, given the rest of that.

As another side note, I've seen Christians (and paid actors) acting out Jesus carrying a cross plenty of times and there's nothing about the act itself that would normally ring any alarm bells on its own because of that. It's unusual, but not a sign of something actually being wrong in and of itself, even if one also called themself Jesus. Rather, that just makes it seem more like LARPing or rehearsing the role for later. As for the friends agreeing to nail them? That's pretty explicitly against the law pretty much everywhere.

It happens in the Philippines, they take their Passion Plays to disturbing degrees of authenticity in some cases.

 
It happens in the Philippines, they take their Passion Plays to disturbing degrees of authenticity in some cases.
Ugh, fair enough. Not everywhere, but even then, it's being officially opposed as spiritual vanity. Still, 36 times so far for that one guy? That's remarkable in its own way.
 
As an odd side note. I was about 35 when asked to do a crucifixion play/ceremony for a local Christian sect based on my resemblance to the European christ images so common here. Guy had Roman soldier costumes, heavy wood crosses and the lot they had used for years.

I declined as I am no more an actor than a believer. It would have been a huge disservice to the believers for me to play the part instead of some guy to whom it would be the highest honor.

The whole concept of doing the show escaped me.
 
Ugh, fair enough. Not everywhere, but even then, it's being officially opposed as spiritual vanity. Still, 36 times so far for that one guy? That's remarkable in its own way.

I'd say that even once is a mental health issue. 36 times is beyond comprehension.
 
I'd say that even once is a mental health issue. 36 times is beyond comprehension.
According to the guy that got chosen for the big pageant in Mexico it was his biggest honor to play the part.
His faith in the whole belief system was unshakable.

As is ours in how fake everything is they believe in. There is no middle ground.

I chose a plan that keeps my opinion off the table as much as possible. They don't force it to be an issue it never is.
I wish the trans lobbyists could follow that example.
 
As noted before with the "biological sex" bit, biology in reality is complex and messy. The binary that you speak of is useful for many purposes, but it's not even remotely some hard rule. Instead, it would be true to say that figuring out a way to accept their current physical form that leaves them as healthy as possible is obviously preferable.



Absolutely, and such should only really be available with very good cause, as determined with their health professionals, with full disclosure about the issues that it entails, physical and otherwise. At last check, though, that was already standard practice... for trans people. That similar ethics have long not been applied to sex change surgeries on intersex people and the overall willingness of the anti-trans crowd to accept sex change surgery on intersex people without the knowledge or consent of the people themselves seriously undermines any argument that they collectively care about those principles, though, rather than just invoking those problems as a dishonest pretense. Whether or not that is the actually the case for you, you've been tarred by their collective dishonesty because there's no easy way to tell the difference from this end.
I grew up trans in Utah, not knowing any word for myself beyond 'broken' or 'failed girl'. Telling me "you're a girl" would have done absolutely nothing because I knew what girls my age were doing and thinking, and I wasn't. I'm sure John Freestone would feel good about himself getting to say it, but it wouldn't have helped me at all.
 
That is what they think they see. But sexuality is far more complex than what one's genitalia is.
Standard pronouns do not refer to or indicate sexuality.
It's their life. Let them live it. We shouldn't make their life, or anyone's life harder, just because we don't understand them or their choices.
How does my use of pronouns interfere with their life? I don’t see that it actually does.
 
My guess the only reason you think you didn't get someone's sex wrong is your ignorance. I know lots of individuals you wouldn't know unless they told you. I tended bar for years in a popular club where homosexuals and trans people frequented. If I couldn't tell, I'm pretty sure those without the experience I have had couldn't either. Some you absolutely could. But a lot of others, not a chance.
I don't doubt that in a venue devoted to genderqueer expression, some pronoun ambiguity arises. But we don't need to invent and enforce a new, general social norm, just to handle edge cases for genderqueer enthusiasts.

Again, the debate about preferred pronouns would be very different, it were actually about properly identifying someone's gender persona in a gay/trans nightclub. But it's not.

And - also again - clocking someone's sex at first glance isn't 100% reliable, but it's pretty close, and easily corrected when a mistake is made. Me calling a man "he" is not a mistake. It's me describing the reality I observe. I don't see why I should substitute that clarity of observation for a feigned confusion and uncertainty.
 
Standard pronouns do not refer to or indicate sexuality.

How does my use of pronouns interfere with their life? I don’t see that it actually does.
You're right they don't. He and she refer to gender not sex.
 
You're right they don't. He and she refer to gender not sex.
I said sexuality, not sex. These things are not synonymous. You might use he/she pronouns to refer to gender and not sex, but I don't. I use he/she pronouns to refer to sex. Not gender, and not sexuality.

And you didn't answer my question: how does my use of pronouns interfere with their life?
 
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