Problems With Magnetic Reconnection

This thread is about the alleged, but not yet provided problems with the physics of magnetic reconnection.

Your statement is another perfect example of pure denial. I have provided you with evidence of the physical problems that caused Alfven to reject MR theory as "pseudoscience", you just refuse to address the issues. The current does all the "reconnecting", not just dumbed down magnetic lines.

The persistent and uncivil taunting, badgering, lying, and insulting.....

....all comes from you. You don't have a clue what you're talking about but you continue to engage yourself in the thread anyway. Dark filament eruption? What dark filament?
 
Your statement is another perfect example of pure denial. I have provided you with evidence of the physical problems that caused Alfven to reject MR theory as "pseudoscience", you just refuse to address the issues. The current does all the "reconnecting", not just dumbed down magnetic lines.


No, that is not true. And since it's been explained dozens of times, the continued repetition of these untrue comments would indicate either an inability to understand the real physics, or an intentional dishonesty, or maybe both. Argument failed.

....all comes from you. You don't have a clue what you're talking about but you continue to engage yourself in the thread anyway. Dark filament eruption? What dark filament?


As always, the uncivil personal attack wholly devoid of any support for the notion that there are problems with the physics of magnetic reconnection would indicate that the claim is unsupportable. Argument failed.

The whole current carrying circuit *ERUPTED* tusenfem, it didn't "reconnect" to anything.


More looks-like-a-bunny science without a shred of objective support. Argument failed.
 
Electric currents and magnetic reconnection VII

MR theory on the other hand is really unnecessary and really ignores the physics entirely. The charge separation and CURRENT drives the parade. You folks insist on putting the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse.
Why did you even bother to post this? You have said nothing new, you are only repeating your miserably failed claims. No, MR theory emphatically does not ignore the physics. MR theory and practice is the physics. "Circuit reconnection", on the other hand, is a fantasy of your own devise, which not only ignores the physics, but actually has nothing at all to do with physics. Fantasy in, fantasy out, and fantasy is all you have to offer.


Anyone that WANTS to see that dark filament erupt can do so.
So what? Since when does the fact that the filament is "dark" prove anything?


Apparently you refuse to acknowledge that there is no quantitative criticism of "circuit reconnection".
There is also no quantitative model or description or physics of "circuit reconnection". Nobody even knows what it is or is supposed to be. It's hard to present a quantitative criticism of something that does not quantitatively exist.


There has been plenty of quantitative explanations for circuit disruption, none of which you have responded to or dealt with.
No. There has never been any quantitative explanation for circuit disruption, not by you or anyone else.


The whole current carrying circuit *ERUPTED* tusenfem, it didn't "reconnect" to anything.
The current was accelerated by magnetic reconnection, and there is absolutely nothing in that flare movie by which one might reasonably argue otherwise.
 
The whole current carrying circuit *ERUPTED* tusenfem, it didn't "reconnect" to anything.

Yes, my dear Michael, it is an exploding circuit, and please don't torment your pretty little head with the microphysics and plasma physics that is involved.

If a circuit explodes, then what happens to the current carrying wires? I just blew up a very nice RLC circuit here in the lab, the current carrying wires are broken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh darn, but that cannot be, can it???

Physics? What physics?
 
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If a circuit explodes, then what happens to the current carrying wires?

The Magic smokeWP escapes and the circuit stops working. ;)

I just blew up a very nice RLC circuit here in the lab, the current carrying wires are broken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh darn, but that cannot be, can it???
As an aside, when I was a kid, I had a friend who had one of the electronics kits where you build circuits on a board using spring loaded connectors and discrete components (it was a LONG time ago!). He built a circuit that allowed him to put mains voltage (250V AC) across 16V electrolytic capacitors. When he flicked a switch, the capacitors used to erupt too. And fill his bedroom with white fluff. :covereyes
 
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http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2011/07jun11/M2_CME_304_large_crop.mpg

Lest I hijack some other thread, I'll just post Skeptic Ginger's link here too, so we can discuss it openly. Alfven's circuit theory nicely explains such events as a disruption of the entire "dark filament" circuit.
You are lying Alfven's circuit theory: there are no filaments in it. It completelyt ignores the physicsal structures by replacint then with logical electecial components in a circuit.


You are still displaying your ignorance of solar physics:
  • filaments are plasma, not your delusion of wires connecting electrical components (circuits).
  • The only difference between dark filaments and ordinary filaments (aside with your obsession with dark filaments) is that they are dark relative to a lighter background and so more easily seen.
MR theory on the other hand is really unnecessary and really ignores the physics entirely. The charge separation and CURRENT drives the parade. You folks insist on putting the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse.
How idiotic: MR theory is necessary and really considers the physics entirely.
The rest is just your usual delusional and ignorant rant about charge separation (does not exist until after magnetic reconnection events) and your obession about CURRENT.
 
http://plasma.colorado.edu/phys7810/articles/Alfven_FieldLines_1976.pdf

The first four sections of that short paper describe a gedanken experiment in which the magnetic field is stationary. With a stationary magnetic field, there is obviously no magnetic reconnection.

In section 5, however, Alfvén explicitly acknowledges the legitimacy and potential relevance of magnetic reconnection in non-stationary fields:

That passage confirms my interpretation of Alfvén's remarks in his keynote address, while refuting Michael Mozina's interpretation of those same remarks.

Notice that this paper you cited is from a decade PRIOR to his double layer paper that according to Alfven "nails the coffin shut" in all current carrying environments. In other words, you are outright ignoring the fact that his later work set even MORE STRINGENT requirements of where it might be useful, and he specifically MADE IT OBSOLETE IN CURRENT CARRYING PLASMA in 1986, a FULL DECADE after the one puny comment you came up with. Get real.
 
Notice that this paper you cited is from a decade PRIOR to his double layer paper that according to Alfven "nails the coffin shut" in all current carrying environments. In other words, you are outright ignoring the fact that his later work set even MORE STRINGENT requirements of where it might be useful, and he specifically MADE IT OBSOLETE IN CURRENT CARRYING PLASMA in 1986, a FULL DECADE after the one puny comment you came up with. Get real.
Note that Alfven never published a paper where he "nails the coffin shut" in any environments.

He MADE A SPEECH in 1986, a FULL 6 YEARS after the one real paper the W.D. Clinger came up with. Get real MM.

That paper confirms what Alfven stated in his speech - he thought that the application of the frozen-in field concept was being too generally applied.
 
Note that Alfven never published a paper where he "nails the coffin shut" in any environments.

The Double Layer paper he presented at that conference nails the coffin shut in EVERY experiment that you folks have cited to date however. Care to cite one that doesn't involve a double layer transaction, thereby making MR theory redundant and unnecessary?
 
Apologies for resurrecting this ancient thread, but Jean Tate suggested we might start a new one regarding comments that were a bit OT in the Electric Comet thread.
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So, having done a bit more research now, here is what I take from the EU misunderstandings related to magnetic reconnection:

First off, let's go back to 1976. Alfvén authors the paper:

On Frozen-In Field Lines and Field-Line Reconnection
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/JA081i022p04019/full (paywalled)

In that paper he rails against the inappropriate use of the frozen-in concept, and therefore its extension to field line reconnection.

This has been covered by many others before me, who have far greater knowledge in the field. As far as I can make out, he is (rightly) saying that this field line reconnection cannot happen in an ideal MHD scenario. Nobody these days is saying it can, so this is pretty much moot. However, he also says in that paper:

In case the magnetic field varies with time, the geometry near neutral points may change in such a way that it is legitimate to speak of a 'field-line reconnection' We cannot exclude the possibility that some of the field-line reconnection formalism may be applicable, but this remains to be proved.
So, this is quite obviously Alfvén saying that he is not throwing it out entirely, and there may be situations in which it is valid.

Then he goes off on a rant in a conference speech in 1986, saying pretty much the same thing, and calling it pseudoscience:

Double layers and circuits in astrophysics
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19870005703.pdf

However, from a 1987 paper:

Viking in the plasma universe
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/GL014i004p00475/full
http://www.imagebam.com/image/26c07e531125370

.....he produces a table (imagebam link above) that states that 'Energy release through magnetic merging' in a 'Fluid plasma' is 'possible'. So that would appear to say that his statement from 1976, above, still holds. Now, he knows that it cannot happen in an ideal MHD situation, so what is he saying here? Well, to my mind, it is obvious that he realises that there may be non-ideal MHD situations where it is possible. This would not be at all surprising, given the stance taken by his collaborator Carl-Gunne Falthammar.

Falthammar was a co-author of Alfvén's, and may have been a student of his(?). It is obvious that they worked together closely, and were of a similar mind.
Now, if we go back in time again, to 1979, we find Falthammar as a co-author on a paper in which it was claimed by the authors that:

Both the large scale average electric field and the fine scale field observed during a magnetopause crossing show the existence of significant tangential electric field components on both sides of the magnetopause, in agreement with the requirements of reconnection theories
.
Direct observation of a tangential electric field component at the magnetopause
F. S. Mozer, R. B. Torbert, U. V. Fahleson, C.-G. Fälthammar, A. Gonfalone, A. Pedersen, C. T. Russell (1979)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/GL006i004p00305/full

More on the lead author, F.S. Mozer, later.
So we know that Falthammar, whilst still closely collaborating with Alfvén, is open to magnetic reconnection as at least a possibility. Alfvén and Falthammar, for example, were co-authors, in 1978:

On the significance of magnetospheric research for progress in astrophysics
http://www.spp.ee.kth.se/publications/pdfs/TRITA-EPP-78-07.pdf

And then we move forward in time again, to Falthammar in 2007 (co-authored with the previously mentioned F. S. Mozer):

On the Concept of Moving Magnetic Field Lines
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2007EO150002/pdf

Now, this is essentially a comment on a paper that Falthammar feels is somewhat in error. The main thing to take away from it, however, is where he says:

In fact, the most interesting plasma physics occurs precisely where and because this equation is not satisfied, such as the auroral acceleration region, magnetic field reconnection, turbulence, shocks, and many wave modes
.
He further fleshes this out by saying:

The nonexistence of parallel electric fields was later challenged by Alfven, who suggested that auroral primary electrons may gain their energy from falling through a parallel potential drop above the ionosphere and described how parallel electric fields can 'cut' magnetic field lines. Alfven's idea was contrary to contemporary beliefs and was almost universally disregarded, but when in situ measurements in space became possible, they brought the first indications that Alfven might be right. Since then, an overwhelming amount of empirical data have proven that magnetic field aligned electric fields exist and are of key importance in the physics of auroras [Falthammar,2004], in magnetic field reconnection [Mozer,2005], in shocks [Mozer et al,2006],and in plasma turbulance and many wave modes
.
So, it is obvious that Falthammar, by 2007 at the latest, has been converted to the dark side. But, hold on; what is he saying in this second quote? First of all, he's got Alfvén suggesting that non-existent field lines can be 'cut'! Strange that they can be 'cut', but cannot reconnect. What are they then doing? Just wafting around in the breeze? Who knows? Read on. And then he goes on to say that poor old Hannes was disregarded by contemporary scientists, and that he then turned out to be right. Happy days. And then good old Alfie's brilliant suggestion about magnetic field aligned electric fields is now a key factor in such things as, !tada!, magnetic field reconnection! Brilliant. So the whole concept of MRx is, yes you heard it here first folks, due to Alfvén! Well, at least that's the spin that Carl-Gunne puts on it. And who are we (or anybody else) to argue with him? Tusenfem might, but last I heard he was playing an Ork somewhere in the Tyrol.

Lest there be any doubt that Falthammar has has come over to the 'pseudoscience' of MRx, he makes comments on it and even has a small section on it, in a presentation from 2010:

The Earth’s Magnetosphere as a Key to the Plasma Universe
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:484042/FULLTEXT01.pdf

In this, he comments:

......Alfvén waves appear to be responsible for certain kinds of auroras (Stasiewics et al., 2000; Keiling et al. 2003; Chaston et al. 2003, 2007; Janhunen et al., 2006), and recent observations (Chaston et al., 2009) indicate that they play an important role in magnetic reconnection
.
Alfvén responsible again, albeit tangentially. He also references Priest & Forbes, 2000, which, from memory, was oft referenced by Tim Thompson in his seemingly interminable battle against pseudoscience.

So, having established that Falthammar was a proponent of MRx, and that it was all down to Alfvén's idea anyway, what did he believe was happening in this MRx? Well, he references, and co-authors with F. S. Mozer in the 'On the Concept of Moving Magnetic Field Lines' paper, above. So just to clear up any confusion about what they are talking about, this is the paper that is referenced:

Criteria for and statistics of electron diffusion regions associated with subsolar magnetic field reconnection
F. S. Mozer
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2005JA011258/full

And Mozer says:

One result of this understanding is that the tangential current required to change the direction of the reconnection magnetic field is parallel to the tangential electric field that is required for an E x B/B2 drift of plasma and field lines into the reconnection region such that there is a significant j.E over the ion skin depth region to convert magnetic field energy to ion energy over a large scale. However, on this scale, magnetic field lines still move with the E x B/B2 velocity, so the physics in the electron diffusion region on the electron skin depth scale, c/wpe (5 km at the subsolar magnetopause), must be considered in order to understand magnetic field reconnection.
So, nothing about circuit reconnection here, nor current reconnection. Just good old MRx. However, the 'consideration' that he puts at the end of that quote is beyond my pay grade, but doesn't appear to hold any great hope for MRx haters.


So, to summarise;
MRx is all Alfvén's fault. He led poor old Carl-Gunne astray as well. Not to mention a shed load of other scientists, including those on this board. However, the EU people think he's wrong. Hey ho. Either that or they don't know what they think, because they don't understand what he was saying, and/or didn't bother to do any research to find out.

Feel free to comment, otherwise we can let this ageing thread return to its well earned retirement, safe in the knowledge that MRx is proven beyond any doubt.
 
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ok

How about this one from Fälthammar

http://www.geofisica.unam.mx/divulgacion/geofinternacional/iframes/anteriores/2004/02/Falthamar.pdf

What Fälthammar means by "reconnection" is an exploding double layer.

Proven correct, I see. Remembering the following, every double layer is an electric field but not every electric field is a double layer.

But an electric field will accelerate charged particles, electrons in particular (less mass) more better’r than null point mag fields snapping, stretching and reconnecting.

Good now we can move on. Reconnection (particle accelerators) are electric fields. :thumbsup:
 
Proven correct, I see. Remembering the following, every double layer is an electric field but not every electric field is a double layer.

But an electric field will accelerate charged particles, electrons in particular (less mass) more better’r than null point mag fields snapping, stretching and reconnecting.

Good now we can move on. Reconnection (particle accelerators) are electric fields. :thumbsup:

Is a lie. What Fälthammar means by reconnection is precisely the same as other plasma physicists mean by the term. It is not even close to a double layer. Want me to quote him again?
 
Is a lie. What Fälthammar means by reconnection is precisely the same as other plasma physicists mean by the term. It is not even close to a double layer. Want me to quote him again?

Yup, particle acceleration via electric fields.
 

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