Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot

Zivan said:

WHERE. ARE. YOUR. TWO. WITNESSES. ????????
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I think he's counting Isaiah and Matthew. Remember, this is a guy who has repeatedly claimed that virgin birth myths that predate Christ by hundreds to thousands of years somehow plagiarized the Christ narrative. I wouldn't put it past him to claim Biblical prophets and saints were endorsing him in the text of the Bible.
 
halleyscomet said:
I think he's counting Isaiah and Matthew. Remember, this is a guy who has repeatedly claimed that virgin birth myths that predate Christ by hundreds to thousands of years somehow plagiarized the Christ narrative. I wouldn't put it past him to claim Biblical prophets and saints were endorsing him in the text of the Bible.
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Agree ^

PB says Mohammad and Josef Smith are irrelevant because the witness of "one man" does not count. Even though Mohammad has billions of followers (and a holy book) and Josef Smith has millions of followers (and a holy book).

Then PB (with ZERO followers and NO holy book by him) says:

Paul Bethke said:
So you SEE, or maybe you do not SEE, I will be great because I teach the importance of the least to the greatest of the commands—
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......while quoting Isaiah and Matthew (anonymous authors).

The monstrous ego of PB is truely mind-boggling......
 
Zivan said:
Agree ^



PB says Mohammad and Josef Smith are irrelevant because the witness of "one man" does not count. Even though Mohammad has billions of followers (and a holy book) and Josef Smith has millions of followers (and a holy book).



Then PB (with ZERO followers and NO holy book by him) says:







......while quoting Isaiah and Matthew (anonymous authors).



The monstrous ego of PB is truely mind-boggling......
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An ego of Biblical proportions.
 
Paul Bethke said:
At this stage there is no evidence, except the Scriptures, and I am told that the Scriptures in them self cannot be used as evidence--there has to be some external evidence--right??
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Yes. Scripture is evidence that some anonymous blokes wrote some stuff, Nothing more.

Your claim is greater than that, so you are obliged to provide evidence for that claim.
 
Paul Bethke said:
At this stage there is no evidence, except the Scriptures, and I am told that the Scriptures in them self cannot be used as evidence--there has to be some external evidence--right??
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Correct.

Since you can provide no evidence, your claim that the Scriptures are somehow a valid proof of anything can be ignored.

In contrast, there is considerable evidence that:

1. You do not follow the mitzvot;
2. Your religious understanding is rather basic;
3. You regularly redefine words;
4. You engage in gas lighting;
5. You are just another wannabe religious leader with a cafeteria style approach to faith; and
6. You have no idea how to carry on an argument other then by disagreeing, or how to influence people.
 
1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

2 Peter 3:16

As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Galatians 3:1-29

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

Paul, you need to pray for discernment and to feel the breath of the spirit that moves within you. Even those that forget where they came from, or why they are here, can remember if they ask the spirit that resides within in each of us for guidance.
 
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Zivan said:
Where are YOUR two witnesses?

You need human witnesses. Mohammad and Joseph Smith had human witnesses. You have NONE.
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Paul Bethke said:
Yes but I have two witnesses--the Torah and the Presence of Yahweh.
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You just said the torah was not necessary and has been replaced by the "new" so you do not need to follow it.

The torah (which you reject) is not a man. You need two human witnesses.

The "Presence of Yahweh" is not a man. You need two human witnesses.

Where. Are. Your. Two. Witnesses. ????????

You say you are a "perfect, infallible in understanding" "prophet".

Where. Are. Your. Two. Human. Witnesses. ???????
 
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Zivan said:
You just said the torah was not necessary and has been replaced by the "new" so you do not need to follow it.

The torah (which you reject) is not a man. You need two human witnesses.

The "Presence of Yahweh" is not a man. You need two human witnesses.

Where. Are. Your. Two. Witnesses. ????????

You say you are a "perfect, infallible in understanding" "prophet".

Where. Are. Your. Two. Human. Witnesses. ???????
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And a very good Day to you—no I did not say the Torah is abolished, that would be contrary to what Jesus decreed. The Torah directs a person on how to become holy, and also shows us what is sin.

The new way in which a person can draw near to the Creator is based on the Torah, so a person who has no knowledge of Torah cannot understand the new way.

The Temple is no longer with us, so now a way has been instituted by the Creator for a person to draw near to the Creator, through the atoning death of Jesus. BUT repentance is still required and a person cannot repent without the Torah as is a means of instruction.

So, the new Covenant still has the basis in the Torah---Hebrews 8:10 This is the Covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

And Again

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the Covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

This is first declared by the Prophet Jeremiah--- Jer 31:33 "This is the Covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

So the Torah will always be the means to bring people to repentance and make them holy!!!!!

As Jesus stated, I will demonstrate the same evidence--- John_14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.


So I will have a testimony of Yahweh and the Torah—the signs will be the evidence.
 
Paul Bethke said:
This is what Jesus claimed----John 8:17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
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Jesus sounds confused about what "two men" means, and also about jewish law.

The jewish law states two witnesses are needed, and a person can NOT be a witness for himself.

Also, "god" and "jesus" are supposed to be supernatural. Not human men.

Try again.
 
Paul Bethke said:
<snip>


This is first declared by the Prophet Jeremiah--- Jer 31:33 "This is the Covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
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That is verse 32 in tanakh. Why do you not quote the next verse?

Jeremiah 31:33 (v34 in christian "old testament")

"And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the LORD" for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest"
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So, if the new covenant is in place now (as you say and the "new testament" says) then why are you trying to "teach"?

According to jeremiah, YHVH says that when the new covenant is in place no one (that includes you PB) will need to teach because everyone will already know.

The very fact that you are here trying to "teach" everyone, proves that you do not believe the new covenant is in place.

Either the "old covenant"/mitzvot (which you ignore) are still in place,

OR

There is now a "new covenant" in place which means

YOU SHOULD NOT BE TEACHING ANYONE.

You cannot have it both ways.
 
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