Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot

[Paul Bethke]

The torah, the "commands of the Creator", had NOT been given yet at the time of the "flood".

So how could any people back in those days know what sin even was? If the torah was given to "show people what sin is", then the people at the time of the "flood" had not been "shown", but they did not "escape the wrath of Yahweh".

That is disgusting and beyond cruel.

Strange that you do not understand the Scriptures---before the flood there were two commands that regulated the behaviour of those people and these two commands would have kept the population in check.

One as you should know was to keep the Sabbath, and the other as you should know, was for a man to take a wife and remain with her as stated.

Now in those days, these two commands were abandoned and people reverted to animalism.

After the flood Yahweh added more commands for Noah and his family to adhere to as a family and later to pass on these laws to their offspring—the additional laws that were added to the original two were they could eat meat, but not meat with blood in it and they were to put to death anyone who murdered another.

So what they were left with.
The Sabbath.
The marriage covenant.
Eat meat, but not the blood.
The death penalty for murder.

These laws were to govern the population until the Torah was given.
So as the Apostle Paul explains—where there is no law there is no sin.
So, the Torah explains what is sin.

So, now through the Gospel all people will come under the Judgement of the commands of the Creator as described in the Torah.

Matt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

So Jesus stipulated that the Torah would never cease to exist, but will be used to convict people of sin so that they can repent.

So marriage remains the cardinal requirement of the Creator, and divorce and remarriage to another person is adultery.

 

[Jodie]

Well first of all, according to the Scriptures the world as we know it has only been in existence for 5777 years according to the Hebrew Scriptures. Now according to the Hebrew Scripture or record of the beginning there was Adam and then there was Eve, and all mankind stems from this.

That's about the length of time writing has existed but it isn't what the fossil evidence, DNA evidence, and archaeological evidence says. The scriptures were written by man. Don't you think it's altogether possible that they had no idea that man existed for much longer prior to written history?

Then after the flood there was Noah and his sons and their wives, eight all in all, and we are the offspring of these eight people. Now all people at that time would be of the same pigmentation, and due to some proses people changed colour.

About that, don't you remember that Moses' daughters took advantage of their father while he was drunk? How does that fit in with your interpretation of what the bible says about holy matrimony?

Now do we use the Scriptures to explain the migration of people?

I don't know that we use scripture to explain world migration. Abraham left Ur, Cain left his community after killing Able, there is Exodus, Jesus and his disciples moved around the Roman Empire, and Paul went on missionary trips. Nothing in the bible explains world migration patterns.

But back to the commands—the commands of Yahweh the Creator is what determines my interpretation. The culture of people contrary to the Torah determines their acceptance or rejection.

What was practiced by the missionaries was to educate the black Africans about the requirements of the stipulations of the Creator.

Basically a Neanderthal world view imposed upon the origin of the human species.

So it is the response to these laws that the blacks are judged on—those who continue in the practices that the Creator abhors and those who convert to the requirements of Torah.
Today the vast majority of blacks, some 70% prefer to indulge in the practices of the ancestors.

As is their right to do without interference or judgement.

So there is no ego on my part by highlighting the continued sin that the blacks indulge in, what I find unacceptable is that they the blacks want to impose their culture on our children, and as such I am in opposition to this.

So, the Torah is what determines judgement.

This is what we call white privilege here in the United States and it is not a god given right.

 

[Paul Bethke]

The commands that were given to Israel were to be distributed to all nations, every command had an application and can be paired with many present day laws.

So at this stage I will leave the discussion as it is only going to be a repeat of all that I have stated.
I thank all my valued critics for their input—it certainly causes me to re-evaluate my stance.

I will also put an END to my end time predictions until the END is in sight.
So let me end with this.
Thank you all.

 

[JayUtah]

So at this stage I will leave the discussion...

That effectively concedes that you are unable or unwilling to support your claim to be perfectly obedient to the mitzvot. If you refuse to participate in a scrutiny of your claims, by what right do you expect others to accept you as a prophet?

...as it is only going to be a repeat of all that I have stated.

Quite likely true, in that your participation has been uselessly repetitive. You don't seem to understand the difference between stating a claim and proving a claim. But if all you can do is repeat your claims and not offer proof beyond "Because I say so," then would you agree it's rational to reject your claims?

I thank all my valued critics for their input—it certainly causes me to re-evaluate my stance.

I see no evidence that it does. More often than not, your response to criticism is simply to accuse the critic of some flavor of ignorance and restate your case.

I will also put an END to my end time predictions until the END is in sight.

Then you can't be a prophet. Prophets prophesy. If you don't walk the walk, then the talk is just talk.

Thank you all.

You're welcome.

 

[halleyscomet]

The commands that were given to Israel were to be distributed to all nations, every command had an application and can be paired with many present day laws.

So at this stage I will leave the discussion as it is only going to be a repeat of all that I have stated.
I thank all my valued critics for their input—it certainly causes me to re-evaluate my stance.

I will also put an END to my end time predictions until the END is in sight.
So let me end with this.
Thank you all.

Riiiight.

Sure.

 

[Zivan]

So at this stage I will leave the discussion as it is only going to be a repeat of all that I have stated.

At "this stage"?

When did you ever say anything that was NOT a constant repeat? That is all you ever do is repeat. Why stop now?

I will also put an END to my end time predictions until the END is in sight.

You keep saying we are IN the "END" times. Now you are saying we are not?

 

[Zivan]

Strange that you do not understand the Scriptures---before the flood there were two commands that regulated the behaviour of those people and these two commands would have kept the population in check.

One as you should know was to keep the Sabbath, and the other as you should know, was for a man to take a wife and remain with her as stated.

And NOTHING to do with your obsession with sex and adultery.

 

[halleyscomet]

And NOTHING to do with your obsession with sex and adultery.

Let's not get carried away. That right there is sci-fi territory.

 

[Zivan]

Let's not get carried away. That right there is sci-fi territory.

Oh, I know. I can see him screeching at a 10 year old rape victim that was not forced to marry her rapists, "Adulteress! You will burrrrrrn in the fire pits of hell forever!"

*shudder*

 

[halleyscomet]

Oh, I know. I can see him screeching at a 10 year old rape victim that was not forced to marry her rapists, "Adulteress! You will burrrrrrn in the fire pits of hell forever!"

*shudder*

That's the problem I'm having with the short story I'm trying to write based on him. Accurately depicting him would come across as some sort of Christian-bashing straw man. I have the basic plot and most the characters set up, but I keep hitting a "no, he sounds like a comic book villian again" problem with the story.

 

[Zivan]

That's the problem I'm having with the short story I'm trying to write based on him. Accurately depicting him would come across as some sort of Christian-bashing straw man. I have the basic plot and most the characters set up, but I keep hitting a "no, he sounds like a comic book villian again" problem with the story.

Yes, he is so beyond-the-pale bizarre that anything written about his "christianity" would look like christian bashing.

Maybe you could show his reaction towards a book, written by normal christians, against comic book self defined "christian" villans like PB....

 

[halleyscomet]

Yes, he is so beyond-the-pale bizarre that anything written about his "christianity" would look like christian bashing.

Maybe you could show his reaction towards a book, written by normal christians, against comic book self defined "christian" villans like PB....

I've been working along two distinct lines.

1. Tell the story from the viewpoint of one or more people around him. That way I can show only slivers of his behavior and put it in a context where its abnormality is highlighted. I'd let the reader's imagination do the heavy lifting. Just because I'm depicting him doesn't mean I have to depict ALL of him.

2. Go all out "Clockwork Orange" and have him tell the story from his point of view. He'd offer "evidence" to support his claims in the form of reports or diary entries he'd confiscated as "proof" to justify his actions. I'd go all out in highlighting every horrifying attitude he's exhibited here but also include his version of interactions with people who don't share his views. The idea there would be to highlight his behavior as having a Christian context, but still distinct from Christianity.

 

[Beady]

Now that he has supposedly bailed on the End Times thread, how much longer before he declares victory here?

This signature is intended to irritate people.

 

[halleyscomet]

Now that he has supposedly bailed on the End Times thread, how much longer before he declares victory here?

Ah, but he's flounced out of this thread as well.

The commands that were given to Israel were to be distributed to all nations, every command had an application and can be paired with many present day laws.

So at this stage I will leave the discussion as it is only going to be a repeat of all that I have stated.
I thank all my valued critics for their input—it certainly causes me to re-evaluate my stance.

I will also put an END to my end time predictions until the END is in sight.
So let me end with this.
Thank you all.

He just posted a couple more times before actually leaving. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, he wanted to leave in a huff, but he had a few more things to say, so he left n a minute and a huff.

 

[Beady]

Oh. I missed that.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

 

[Jodie]

I'ld like to think that deep down inside somewhere he knew he was wrong, otherwise why come here to talk about it?

 

[Beady]

I'ld like to think that deep down inside somewhere he knew he was wrong, otherwise why come here to talk about it?

Missionary zeal, with a strong dose of masochism.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

 

[halleyscomet]

Missionary zeal, with a strong dose of masochism.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

Sadism with a desire to point and laugh while engaging in a revenge fantasy is another possible motivation. I've never seen any posts that suggested he was trying to engage in actual evangelism. His posts always had a "holier than thou" vibe I remember from some of the bigger Pharisees from my church going days.

Luke 18: 9-14
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”