One Million Rupees Offer to prove "Homeopathy is Paranormal"

Non-Sense Homeopath said:
ANYTHING CAN BE PROVED IN THIS WORLD. PROVE YOUR VERDICT AND WIN THE PRIZE. :p
Click to expand...
Since you reckon homeopathy works prove it and win amillion dollars.

I just can't understand why you wouldn't do this.

We can't prove homeopathy is paranormal as we don't think it works. Drinking water or taking sugar pills and having them not cure or treat diseases is not paranormal - it is totally expected by current scientific theories. And this is what we observe.

By the way, anything can be proved can it? Prove buddhism is the one true religion please non-sense.
 
YOU SAID "We can't prove homeopathy is paranormal as we don't think it works."

BUT YOUR THINKING MUST BE BASED ON SOME LOGIC OR EVIDENCE? HOW THAT THOUGHT WAS CAME INTO YOUR MIND? WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE? ANGEL WERE CAME AT NIGHT AND THEY TOLD YOU, IT DOES NOT WORK? :D
 
I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW HOMOEOPATHY WORKS, IN SCIENTIFIC TERMS.

WILL YOU DO THIS?

Rolfe.
 
A MEMBER POSTED "If Dr. MAS chooses to say "I have no interest in explaining homeiopathy to you, but I will apply for and win the Million Dollar Challenge" that would be of equal interest to us.
We'd love to see that."

HE IS ALREADY EXPLAINING HOW HOMEOPATHY DOES WORK. HE NEVER APPLIED FOR JREF PRIZE. HE OFFERED YOU, TO WIN A PRIZE, IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT IT CANNOT WORK OR IT DOES NOT WORK OR IT IS PARANORMAL IN NATURE. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO KNOW HOW DOES IT WORK THEN STAY IN TOUCH WITH 4 YEARS COURSE. :p

HASTE MAKES WASTE.:D
 
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
IN SCIENTIFIC TERM, EXPLAIN TO ME, HOW IT CANNOT WORK?
Click to expand...
FOR 30C?

ONCE YOU HAVE EXPLAINED TO ME YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT DOES WORK.

Rolfe.
 
Non-Sense Homeopath said:
BUT YOUR THINKING MUST BE BASED ON SOME LOGIC OR EVIDENCE?
Click to expand...

Right. The known laws of physics. As explained to you numerous times.

You're the experts. You claim to know how it works. Please explain!

http://www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/138/5/393.pdf

There's a nice open-minded, but skeptical overview for you. To quote from it:

"Despite skepticism about the plausibility of homeopathy, some randomized, placebo-controlled trials and laboratory research report unexpected effects of homeopathic medicines. However, the evidence on the effectiveness of homeopathy for specific clinical conditions is scant, is of uneven quality, and is generally poorer quality than research done in allopathic medicine (61). More and better research is needed, unobstructed by belief or disbelief in the system (62). Until homeopathy is better understood, it is important that physicians be open-minded about homeopathy’s possible value and maintain communication with patients who use it. As in all of medicine, physicians must know how to prevent patients from abandoning effective therapy for serious diseases and when to permit safe therapies even if only for their nonspecific value."
 
Save your electrons, Delphi_ote. First, NonSense can't read anything that isn't typed in all-caps. Second, he can't actually comprehend more than one very simple thought at a time. Don't get drawn in.

NON-SENSE HOMEOPATH. DO YOU AGREE THAT HOMOEOPATHY CANNOT WORK AT 30C?

PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW HOMOEOPATHY DOES WORK, IN SCIENTIFIC TERMS.

Let's see if he can manage that bit first.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Save your electrons, Delphi_ote. First, NonSense can't read anything that isn't typed in all-caps. Second, he can't actually comprehend more than one very simple thought at a time. Don't get drawn in.

NON-SENSE HOMEOPATH. DO YOU AGREE THAT HOMOEOPATHY CANNOT WORK AT 30C?

PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW HOMOEOPATHY DOES WORK, IN SCIENTIFIC TERMS.

Let's see if he can manage that bit first.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

You're right, Rolfe. Sorry. You and others have done a brilliant job of communicating this previously. Clearly it's not the content of what is posted. It's a communication problem.

Let me turn on my translation software. Let's see... caps lock key... where's the caps lock key...

GREETINGS, NONSENSE. I APOLOGIZE FOR MY EARLIER INABILITY TO COMMUNICATE. I HOPE YOU CAN NOW UNDERSTAND ME. HERE IS A TRANSLATION OF MY EARLIER POST:

CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW HOMEOPATHY WORKS IN SCIENTIFIC TERMS?
 
ARRRGH!!! ARE WE ALL YELLING NOW? IS THAT WHAT IT'S COME TO? YEP, IT SURE HAS CONVINCED ME THAT HOMEOPATHY WORKS, I TELL YOU WHAT. MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME NOW THAT I'M BEING YELLED AT. I GUESS THAT'S ALL IT TAKES.
 
Non-Sense Homeopath is clearly a joke one way or another.

It is either a rather feeble homeopath trying to exact some petty revenge by posting idiotic posts that just constantly ask questions like an annoying child.

Or it is a sceptic playing a joke.

My guess is the first. It is a homeopath who realises they cant answer any of the questions posed so they are ust axting childish to distract from the fact.

It's actually getting ridiculous now. I don't see the point in asking Non-Sense any more questions.
 
Rolfe said:
FOR 30C?

ONCE YOU HAVE EXPLAINED TO ME YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT DOES WORK.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Non-sense homeopath is the most sensible and intelligent homeopath at this forum, except his pen name. The way you are doing with him. He is doing the same thing with you. TIT for TAT.:D

You also explained "ONCE", how it does not work in 6x. please;)
 
Dr. A Sheikh said:
You also explained "ONCE", how it does not work in 6x. please;)
Click to expand...

It's not a good idea to try to be cute or subtle in a language you've not yet mastered. You're unfortunately not coming across as particularly clever. You come across more as abusive and arrogant than anything else. In fact, your posts seem familiar... I'm reminded of another "Dr." I once knew...

Would you mind asking more directly what "please" was referencing? Did you want someone to explaint to you why they do not think 6x homeopathic remedies would not work? Just what, exactly, are you talking about?
 
delphi_ote said:
You come across more as abusive and arrogant than anything else. In fact, your posts seem familiar... I'm reminded of another "Dr." I once knew...

Would you mind asking more directly what "please" was referencing? Did you want someone to explaint to you why they do not think 6x homeopathic remedies would not work? Just what, exactly, are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Hi delphi_ote

I am saying few words in my language "TAREM KUMACH BEKIN CNHIIIS HAJIII NACHO" What I said?

But what ever you will say in english I can uderstand but you can't understand my native language. This is the difference between you and me. :D

homeo 6x would not work? How? explain in scientific term as stated by sheikh and n/s
 
Originally posted by Homeo Man homeo 6x would not work? How? explain in scientific term as stated by sheikh and n/s [/B]
Click to expand...
For remedies at 6x, each remedy would have to be considered separately.
For example Natrum Muriaticum is table salt.
If I understand correctly, at 6x there would be .000001 gram of NaCl per gram of remedy. This means that unlike the 30C preparations, there is actually some sodium and chloride in the preparation. There would be about .0000004 grams sodium per gram of remedy or per ml of remedy.
Now how do we decide if this amount of sodium would "work"? You could do a carefully designed double-blind test of the effect of the Natrum Muriaticum remedy on whatever sickness it is supposed to treat.

Another way would be to have experiments or explanations showing how the amount of NaCl in that remedy could have an effect on the body.
Why would you think this tiny amount of Na+ (and Cl-) would cause a change in the body?
Compare .0000004 grams Na+/gram of remedy to these amounts:
in plasma, around .003 g Na+/ml.
In saliva, maybe around .0002 g Na+/ml.
What is your theory on how the tiny additional amount of Na+ in the remedy could have an effect on the body?

A pinch of salt would have about .03 grams Na+.
A teaspoon of carrot might have .001 gram Na+.
Some tap water contains .000001 grams Na+/ml.
How would a remedy with such a tiny amount of sodium (and chloride) have an effect on the body when you are constantly adding sodium in your daily diet anyway?

If you want to say that there is a scientific explanation for the effect of 6x NaCl as a remedy, you need to show a mechanism for how it works. Using standard physiology, it seems there would not be a way for your remedy at 6x to have an effect. With increasing dilutions, this would be even more unlikely. How could adding such a tiny additional bit of Na+ to a pool with a much larger amount of Na+ stimulate a response?
Can you explain your theory?

For a very high dilution like 30C, if you are assuming that your effect happens directly through the sodium and chloride ions themselves on the body, you would have to explain why you think there are sodium and chloride ions left in a 30C preparation of Natrum Mur. (This is the Avogadro's law question that has been asked repeatedly.)

(There is also an issue with contamination that might affect your theory in some way. For instance lactose (used for trituration) might be contaminated with .00005 grams Na+ / gram of lactose.
This complicates your dilutions.)

It is possible I have copied some of these values incorrectly
 
Homeo Man said:
homeo 6x would not work? How? explain in scientific term as stated by sheikh and n/s
Click to expand...
I apologise for repeating myself. There are three threads (at least) about exactly the same topic, and I can't see any way to make the homoeopaths stick to one of them.

Well, if we're actually going to address this, then no, as a blanket statement, I do not believe that "it works" at 6X or 12X or any other X come to that.

Why not?

Because the whole assumption that "like cures like" is a pack of nonsense based on a misunderstanding.

Little homoeopathic history lesson.

Samuel Hahnemann was a German physician living at the end of the 18th century. He had a job translating medical texts into German. One of the books he was given to translate was the Materia Medica of William Cullen, a very famous professor at Glasgow University. In this book Cullen stated (correctly) that the bark of the cinchona tree was an effective treatment for malaria. He also speculated (incorrectly) that the reason for the efficacy was that the bark had an astringent action on the stomach.

Hahnemann thought about this, and realised (correctly) that this explanation was unlikely, because there were a number of other things with an even more astringent action on the stomach which didn't do a blind bit of good for malaria. He then decided to get some of the bark and see if he could figure it out. He took some himself, and it made him feel unwell. He believed that the symptoms he was experiencing were similar to those of malaria. He tried this several times, and indeed, the effect was reproducible.

However, what he failed to do was to find out if the effect also happened to other people. In fact it doesn't. The vast majority of people, on taking cinchona bark, will not experience what Hahnemann experienced. It appears that he suffered an idiosyncratic, probably allergic, reaction to something in the bark.

Nevertheless, Hahnemenn concluded from this observation that the reason that cinchona bark cures malaria is that it produces malarial symptoms in healthy people. Wrong on two counts. First, as I said, cinchona bark doesn't produce malarial symptoms in the vast majority of healthy people. Second, the reason cinchona bark cures malaria is that it contains a high concentration of quinine, which kills the Plasmodium protozoan which causes malaria.

"Like cures like" is an expression of a very ancient way of thinking called "sympathetic magic". It can be found running through the thinking and practice of almost all primitive peoples, and indeed it is so ingrained into the human psyche that even modern man finds himself thinking that way sometimes.

However, it has absolutely no basis in fact. Whether or not any particular substance is active against any particular disease has nothing at all to do with whatever symptoms it might cause in a healthy person.

Therefore, there is no reason at all to believe that "homoeopathy works" at any dilution at all.

However, at the very low potencies, that is under 24X and 12C, there are indeed some traces of the original mother tincture present. It would therefore be foolish to declare that it is entirely impossible that any such preparation could ever have any sort of physiological effect. Especially right down at 6X, it's possible that certain individual preparations of particularly pharmacologically active substances might have an effect. For example, if you started with a highly concentrated mother tincture, I think you'd be very unwise to take a 6X preparation of potassium cyanide.

This is nevertheless not any sort of admission that "homoeopathy works" at these dilutions. Merely an observation that sometimes, with certain preparations, something might happen. Probably not that a disease would be cured though!

However, we note that when homoeopaths practise, they usually use much higher dilutuions than this. 30C is a very common prescription, and 200C seems quite popular too.

We know that such preparations have absolutely nothing at all of the mother tincture in them. We therefore discard all these earler caveats and state categorically that these preparations cannot possibly have any effect at all (beyond whatever effect the carrier solvent might have).

It is thus interesting that these homoeopaths are continually turning away from our constant questions about the 30C preparations. This is the clear question, to which we want an answer.

DO YOU THEN AGREE THAT 30C PREPARATIONS DO NOT (AND CANNOT) WORK?

Rolfe.
 
Homeo Man said:
Hi delphi_ote

I am saying few words in my language "TAREM KUMACH BEKIN CNHIIIS HAJIII NACHO" What I said?

But what ever you will say in english I can uderstand but you can't understand my native language. This is the difference between you and me. :D
Click to expand...

So I guess I need to learn your language to explain to you how rude you sound in my language. *sigh*

PLEASE ANSWER ROLFE'S POST
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom