Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[Minadin]

You birthers are nuts. The very first people who would have pointed out any funny business regarding his constitutional qualifications to be President would have been the Democrats running against him in the Primaries.

I am not a big fan of the guy, as presidents go. I think he's an OK guy, I'd sit down and have a beer with him and talk hoops, if I was invited. I think he's mostly been a step forward from Bush on foreign policy, but mostly a step back domestically. He's high on talk and low on substance, but who does that not describe among politicians?

The thing is, if you're going to have a beef with the guy, let it be about something he has done, or a policy he holds, or something actually substantive.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The pdf version has some weird artifacting but the version released by the AP doesn't. I think the white house released the PDF to throw fools like you off.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/...html?SITE=WYCHE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[qimg]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/361a1a85-59aa-4ce4-a1a2-6347b12423bb-big.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/110427_obama_birth_certificate_ap_605.jpg[/qimg]

Yeah, I kind of agree with that. That the White House on purpose released a messy PDF to create speculations among conspiracy believers.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

You birthers are nuts. The very first people who would have pointed out any funny business regarding his constitutional qualifications to be President would have been the Democrats running against him in the Primaries.

I am not a big fan of the guy, as presidents go. I think he's an OK guy, I'd sit down and have a beer with him and talk hoops, if I was invited. I think he's mostly been a step forward from Bush on foreign policy, but mostly a step back domestically. He's high on talk and low on substance, but who does that not describe among politicians?

The thing is, if you're going to have a beef with the guy, let it be about something he has done, or a policy he holds, or something actually substantive.

I agree. It's odd Republicans keep calling obama a far left socialist- he's actually right of center in my book- but many modern Republicans are so far right wing, even moderates seem extreme leftists to them, so no wonder they think a Democrat like Obama is left wing extremist.
Republicans have been sliding to the extreme right wing for the past decade- they are in all but name a Christian fundamentalist party, that seem more interested in promoting the social bigotries of Christian a-holes than actually helping this country. No surprise their attacks on Obama are so petty- be it the telepromper bs, the tiresome Acorn BS or the Birther idiocy..
It's amazing Republicans think they have the credibility to attack Obama on being fiscally irresponsible, given the fact every Republican president for the past 50 years was a fiscally reckless trainwreck.
I wish Obama had been more liberal, and had been more like FDR.

 

[Hans]

You birthers are nuts.

The thing is, if you're going to have a beef with the guy, let it be about something he has done, or a policy he holds, or something actually substantive.

Yeah something important, I suggest you go after the arrangement of the filings in his teeth - I hear they are arranged in an outline of Che'.

 

[timhau]

Article Two of the United States Constitution, Section 1, Clause 5: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...stitution#Clause_5:_Qualifications_for_office

A Citizen of the United States, doesn't that mean that Arnold can run for president?

Yes, if he goes back in time to 1787.

 

[timhau]

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that Birthers are incredibly skilled at pointing at evidence that conclusively proves them wrong and saying, "See? I was right."

I suppose it never occurred to them that the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail was intended as a comical character.

 

[Minadin]

I don't want to get too deep into politics here - not the correct subforum - and, full disclosure, I'm a card-carrying Republican. Probably Left-wing of the Tea Party, though.

I am not sure if I am bothered more by the caricature you describe, or the fact that those people do exist and seem to get a lot of undeserved attention. I guess it's good for ratings, either way. I assure you that there do exist sensible people who just disagree on policy for a number of well-considered reasons.

My main point, with regard to birthers, is that if you think about this critically, it doesn't make any sense that Hillary or one of the other hopefuls wouldn't have ever brought this up, if there was even the slightest shred of plausibility to the claim. Also, it's annoying to me that none of the birthers seem to realize that a person does not have to be born within the USA borders to be a natural-born citizen (See John McCain Jr.)

I'm a little bit disappointed in Obama (or his administration) for paying any attention to this at all. I suspect that the press that Donald Trump has been getting recently is mostly to blame. Those of us who have been dealing with conspiracy theorists like the birthers, truthers, moon-bats, et cetera already know this won't do anything to convince them.

 

[NotJesus]

interesting analysis.

Complete crap.

He was born in Hawaii. Get over it.

 

[Bob001]

I have no doubt that President Obama was born in Hawaii and that both the short- and long-form BCs are perfectly valid. But I don't use art design software, and I do not understand this newest controversy about layers and vectors and artifacts. Isn't the form on the White House web site just a photograph of the official paper photocopy produced by the Hawaii health department (which apparently was passed around the White House press room so numerous breathless reporters could say they looked at it, touched it, smelled it etc.)? Or did the White House webmasters scan the paper document with a tool that would allow it to be edited (which would be a dumb, but not sinister, thing to do)? What is the actual dispute (in really simple terms)? Have any reporters claimed that what's posted on the WH web site is different in any way at all from the physical paper that they themselves examined?

 

[Mojo]

Have any reporters claimed that what's posted on the WH web site is different in any way at all from the physical paper that they themselves examined?

Cue birther claims that the leftist media are all in on the plot...

 

[383LQ4SS]

New info...just found this myself. Looks like Obama traded political influence for a cr*ppy adobe forgery of his BC.

President Obama Selects Adobe CEO for President’s Management Advisory Board
POSTED BY JACE JOHNSON, VP GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS ON MARCH 11, 2011 10:39 AM IN OTHER COOL STUFF
Adobe is honored that our CEO, Shantanu Narayen, is among the group of distinguished American business leaders specially selected by U.S. President Barack Obama to serve on the President’s Management Advisory Board

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversation...or-president’s-management-advisory-board.html

 

[Anders Lindman]

Yes, if he goes back in time to 1787.

Yes, I noticed that later. That was added as an exception for the first presidents who obviously were born before the Constitution. Something like that.

 

[dvictr]

He's high on talk and low on substance

+1

 

[dvictr]

I have no doubt that President Obama was born in Hawaii and that both the short- and long-form BCs are perfectly valid. But I don't use art design software, and I do not understand this newest controversy about layers and vectors and artifacts. Isn't the form on the White House web site just a photograph of the official paper photocopy produced by the Hawaii health department (which apparently was passed around the White House press room so numerous breathless reporters could say they looked at it, touched it, smelled it etc.)? Or did the White House webmasters scan the paper document with a tool that would allow it to be edited (which would be a dumb, but not sinister, thing to do)? What is the actual dispute (in really simple terms)? Have any reporters claimed that what's posted on the WH web site is different in any way at all from the physical paper that they themselves examined?

there is a specialist at the CIA that edits the documents, the WH is largely in the dark to the entire charade

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Well given that I was told earlier that OCR can't cause what we are seeing I decided to try it on my own. So I tried to find my COLB, which was in a lock box that only my fiance knew the combination to. I spent an hour trying to crack it, and failed...mainly because I needed to be pushing the button to the side instead of trying to push it straight in. (My fiance was in class, and so I could simply call and ask.)

That being done with I went to scan it, and spent hours trying to fix all sorts of driver issues with the new all in one. Anywho...I found exactly what I expected. Scanning the COLB under OCR caused a number of paths to be created....

I had three clipping paths when scanning through Adobe Acrobat, and so I selected a small portion (and I have since redacted the certificate number, you can know my middle name is Charles and I am male.)

I then selected a path and moved it, and here was my result.

Not as nice as I would have hoped, and not beyond people claiming foul; but the real tell is the way the anti-counterfeiting measures are disrupted. This shows that I am not using any sort of opacity extra layer to achieve this effect and it is simply a result of Acrobat translating the scan through OCR.

EDIT: Of course I realize that this will do little to dissuade those who still wish to believe in this CT, and is merely my way of defending my argument.

 

[DC]

Well given that I was told earlier that OCR can't cause what we are seeing I decided to try it on my own. So I tried to find my COLB, which was in a lock box that only my fiance knew the combination to. I spent an hour trying to crack it, and failed...mainly because I needed to be pushing the button to the side instead of trying to push it straight in. (My fiance was in class, and so I could simply call and ask.)

That being done with I went to scan it, and spent hours trying to fix all sorts of driver issues with the new all in one. Anywho...I found exactly what I expected. Scanning the COLB under OCR caused a number of paths to be created....

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/243294dba63f4822de.jpg[/qimg]

I had three clipping paths when scanning through Adobe Acrobat, and so I selected a small portion (and I have since redacted the certificate number, you can know my middle name is Charles and I am male.)

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/243294dba63cab770e.jpg[/qimg]

I then selected a path and moved it, and here was my result.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/243294dba63deb021a.jpg[/qimg]

Not as nice as I would have hoped, and not beyond people claiming foul; but the real tell is the way the anti-counterfeiting measures are disrupted. This shows that I am not using any sort of opacity extra layer to achieve this effect and it is simply a result of Acrobat translating the scan through OCR.

EDIT: Of course I realize that this will do little to dissuade those who still wish to believe in this CT, and is merely my way of defending my argument.

`but ... but alex Jones has many photoshop experts he said, and they all said its a total fakery. and his sister had a degree in photography!!
take that you shill

 

[Juniversal]

Good posts fullflavor..

 

[Travis]

You know, this thread makes me realize there really is no hope for humanity. We really are that collectively stupid for the most part.

How in the world could the same species that believes this Birther crap also invent electricity production? Or even construct crude wheels?

 

[Juniversal]

Something interesting I just noticed from the PDF is when you zoom in a certain amount the backround turns white and the letters (that apparently show up on different layers in illustrator) drop out.

No clue what that means (i'm certainly no expert in image editing) but I imagine it's possible they image was compressed and redrawn when converted to a PDF. Could be some form of rasterization when it was converted to PDF and depending on how the software interpreted the lettering (based on the compression algorithm) determined how it appeared on the PDF document. Just a theory.

I'm pretty sure Fullflavormenthol already described some form of this scenario but i'm too lazy and tired to look right now lol.

 

[Juniversal]

Another interesting find is a 1963 long form I stumbled across that looks very much like Obama's. I'd be interested to see if someone could compress this document, convert to PDF, whatever needs to be done, so that it looks and acts like the Obama long form PDF (so the text has the solid monochromatic matte look while other text looks faded, blocks of text drop out ect.).

Would be a great experiment to shut down the birthers primary claim about the long forms "artifacts" being proof of its inauthenticity.

Don't know much about this form but oddly found out about through this birther vid (don't watch if you can't stand idiocy).