Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[fullflavormenthol]

I understand it completely considering I use it.

You are the one who is confused here.

You are conflating layering in Photoshop with layering in Illustrator, the two have some important differences with how they deal with masks.

Neither OCR nor optimization generates multiple clipping masks on a single layer within a scanned document.

No, I am staring at Illustrator right now. It is a path, not a mask. I am not conflating anything, and by the way it is nice that you use Illustrator and all; but I actually trained in its usage at a University. So I think I know what I am writing about.

Under layer 1 is a series of groups that end in the clipping path that you are manipulating. It is a path, not a mask.

 

[michaelsuede]

No, I am staring at Illustrator right now. It is a path, not a mask. I am not conflating anything, and by the way it is nice that you use Illustrator and all; but I actually trained in its usage at a University. So I think I know what I am writing about.

Under layer 1 is a series of groups that end in the clipping path that you are manipulating. It is a path, not a mask.

Look, I tested this against different OCR pdfs and optimized pdfs, what you are saying is simply not true in regards to how a scanned document is interpreted in Illustrator.

The OCR text is on its own layer (which is obviously not what we see with the obama clipping masks) and optimization does not produce clipping masks of the type found in the obama certificate.

Anyone can run a few tests for themselves and see that what I'm saying is true. So I'm not sure why you are continuing to lie like you are.

 

[therival58]

Those are the original copies from 1961. They weren't generated after 2001.

Miki Booth has likewise shown copies of her son's and husband's originals from before 2001, and nothing afterwards (save her son's short form).

so the bottom line in all of this is that the original longforms before 2001 still exist, just under Hawaii law they are not to be released?

 

[A'isha]

so the bottom line in all of this is that the original longforms before 2001 still exist, just under Hawaii law they are not to be released?

Pretty much. I also don't believe new "long forms" for recent births are created now that Hawaii has gone fully electronic, but I'm not positive.

 

[therival58]

Pretty much. I don't believe "long forms" for births are created now that Hawaii has gone fully electronic, but I'm not positive.

Right, ok then. So technically, Obama could try to get the Hawaii Dept of Health to override the law and show the real longform copy, but apparently he went through enough trouble to get the digital longform up, correct?

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Look, I tested this against different OCR pdfs and optimized pdfs, what you are saying is simply not true in regards to how a scanned document is interpreted in Illustrator.

The OCR text is on its own layer (which is obviously not what we see with the obama clipping masks) and optimization does not produce clipping masks of the type found in the obama certificate.

Anyone can run a few tests for themselves and see that what I'm saying is true. So I'm not sure why you are continuing to lie like you are.

Those are not clipping masks. Got it? Or are you still going to keep this up?

 

[Spindrift]

Right, ok then. So technically, Obama could try to get the Hawaii Dept of Health to override the law and show the real longform copy, but apparently he went through enough trouble to get the digital longform up, correct?

No there is no "digital longform".

 

[A'isha]

Right, ok then. So technically, Obama could try to get the Hawaii Dept of Health to override the law and show the real longform copy, but apparently he went through enough trouble to get the digital longform up, correct?

Well, the original non-electronic copy is apparently stored in a special locked vault that only the registrar, Alvin Onaka, has access to (it was moved there a while back, according to this).

It's not clear whether the copy Obama got was printed from an electronic scan of the document that Hawaii already had stored, or whether the original paper copy was just taken to a photocopier loaded with security paper. I tend to think the latter, since there'd be no reason to store an electronic scan (the information used to make short form abstracts comes from a database, not scanned images), and we know the original paper copy exists.

 

[therival58]

No there is no "digital longform".

well, whatever was released.

 

[michaelsuede]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/243294db9aed2ae620.png[/qimg]

Those are not clipping masks. Got it? Or are you still going to keep this up?

That doesn't change anything I said at all.

The fact remains that neither OCR nor optimization can create what you are looking at.

We should expect to see two layers if OCR was used, text and everything else.

If the document was optimized, the differing sections are LAYERED

You will never be able to walk me through a step-by-step process from a raw document to final pdf that generates the type of "paths" observed in the Obama document without manually configuring them to be there.

 

[therival58]

Well, the original non-electronic copy is apparently stored in a special locked vault that only the registrar, Alvin Onaka, has access to (it was moved there a while back, according to this).

It's not clear whether the copy Obama got was printed from an electronic scan of the document that Hawaii already had stored, or whether the original paper copy was just taken to a photocopier loaded with security paper. I tend to think the latter, since there'd be no reason to store an electronic scan (the information used to make short form abstracts comes from a database, not scanned images), and we know the original paper copy exists.

cool, thanks for clearing that up, although was transport to a super secure vault with a dual combination key lock that necessary? As one commentor put it, you would think they were handling the original copy of the Declaration of Independence.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Apparently this release won't kill the birther movement, but it will kill a significant number of its remaining brain cells, resulting in a much higher output of stupidity and/or insanity.

LOL! ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[BeAChooser]

1) You are trusting World Nut Daily

So ... you trust the Washington Post which I've demonstrated is dishonest.

 

[mike3]

A scan of a photocopy of a document typed in the 60s. There are going to be artifacts. Artifacts.



Artifacts.

I'm curious: what is it that causes that kind of artifacting that gives it a perfect flat color and sharp pixelated edge?

It is more like teaching calculus to a group of preschoolers.

Isn't it more like teaching it to someone who doesn't want to be taught, since I don't know much about this either, but I want to learn. Would you still hate trying to tell me?

 

[Spindrift]

So ... you trust the Washington Post which I've demonstrated is dishonest.

Dishonest doesn't mean "Doesn't print CT woo."

 

[BeAChooser]

Hey, he can't even "name" the two mentioned in the WND article. Both the "Danae" certificate and the one supposedly belonging to the daughter of one of Miki Booth's friends are anonymous!

Well given the sort of treatment they'd get from people like you and KB (and perhaps Obama's IRS), I don't blame them from wanting to remain anonymous. That's why I'm so careful to tell you folks as little as possible about me. But for those who are curious, Danae at FreeRepublic claims to have gotten a copy of her long-form birth certificate originally issued in 1969 mailed to her on Sept. 28, 2010, after she paid a $10 fee. She posted various images of that certificate and to verify her transaction, she even posted a receipt she was sent Sept. 28, 2010, by the Hawaii state agency, documenting the $10 fee to get her long-form, hospital-generated certificate. And to satify ObamaTruthers like you, she even posted a photo of her original long-form, hospital-generated certificate of live birth side-by-side with the copy she posted online. Here are the images from Danae: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=285921 But they are all fake, aren't they, ANTPogo.

 

[A'isha]

Well given the sort of treatment they'd get from people like you and KB (and perhaps Obama's IRS), I don't blame them from wanting to remain anonymous.

Funny, Miki Booth had no problem plastering her husband's and son's un-redacted forms all over the internet. Why didn't she get a long form for either or both of them, instead of relying on anonymous "friends"?

That's why I'm so careful to tell you folks as little as possible about me. But for those who are curious, Danae at FreeRepublic claims to have gotten a copy of her long-form birth certificate originally issued in 1969 mailed to her on Sept. 28, 2010, after she paid a $10 fee. She posted various images of that certificate and to verify her transaction, she even posted a receipt she was sent Sept. 28, 2010, by the Hawaii state agency, documenting the $10 fee to get her long-form, hospital-generated certificate. And to satify ObamaTruthers like you, she even posted a photo of her original long-form, hospital-generated certificate of live birth side-by-side with the copy she posted online. Here are the images from Danae: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=285921 But they are all fake, aren't they, ANTPogo.

There's no way to tell whether it's fake or not, since it's a plain white-paper photocopy (and the receipt not only has nothing on it to show it was for the photocopy in question, the receipt says it was for a certified copy, which by Danae's own admission the copy is not). Danae could have taken her 1969 original to a Kinkos and run off a copy, and it would appear the same. That's why real documents get certified, BAC.

In any case, I should think that the problem with trying to use an uncertified copy of a long form issued after 2001 to prove that Hawaii was still issuing certified long forms after 2001 should be obvious even to you.

 

[BeAChooser]

Apparently this release won't kill the birther movement, but it will kill a significant number of its remaining brain cells, resulting in a much higher output of stupidity and/or insanity.

Since you singled my post, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7127382&postcount=3190, out after making that comment, I guess you missed the fact that I proved all those posters I named in the post lied earlier in the thread? Or did you lack the brain cells to see that?

 

[varwoche]

Sorry for my laziness folks, but I'm wondering if any birthers participating in this thread have retracted their claims and conceded Obama's legitimacy?

 

[A'isha]

Since you singled my post, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7127382&postcount=3190, out after making that comment, I guess you missed the fact that I proved all those posters I named in the post lied earlier in the thread? Or did you lack the brain cells to see that?

If we "lied", then the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health lied back in 2001.

Why would he do that, in your mind?