Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[therival58]

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/042611dohmemo.jpg[/qimg]

Better take it up with Hawaii, then.

Duly noted, but as the Fox article you pointed to mentioned:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-moved-secure-location-months-ago/

But that didn't stop the president from requesting last week two certified copies of certificate of live birth from Director of Health Loretta J. Fuddy. On Monday, Fuddy complied.

As director of health for the state of Hawaii, I have the legal authority to approve the process by which copies of such records are made. Through that authority, in recognition of your status as president of the United States, I am making an exception to the current departmental policy which is to issue a computer-generated certified copy,

So Fuddy made an exception to the policy. Fair enough. I believe, however, to really stomp this issue out once and for all, a more proper directive would have been to release the official printed document. (Or scan/microfiche).

 

[A'isha]

Duly noted, but as the Fox article you pointed to mentioned:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-moved-secure-location-months-ago/



So Fuddy made an exception to the policy. Fair enough. I believe, however, to really stomp this issue out once and for all, a more proper directive would have been to release the official printed document. (Or scan/microfiche).

I'm not really very happy that Hawaii made an exception to a policy the established because of statutory restrictions just because the President asked them to.

As I said before, this sets a bad precedent.

 

[Spindrift]

Duly noted, but as the Fox article you pointed to mentioned:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-moved-secure-location-months-ago/



So Fuddy made an exception to the policy. Fair enough. I believe, however, to really stomp this issue out once and for all, a more proper directive would have been to release the official printed document. (Or scan/microfiche).

The OFFICIAL document was released a few years ago.

 

[A'isha]

Actually, what do you mean by "official printed document"? They can't release the original, since there's only one original and they don't want to risk losing or damaging it.

That leaves either photographic copies (ie, pictures taken of it), or certified photocopies. Two certified photocopies were released.

What, specifically, do you want them to do differently?

 

[therival58]

Actually, what do you mean by "official printed document"? They can't release the original, since there's only one original and they don't want to risk losing or damaging it.

That leaves either photographic copies (ie, pictures taken of it), or certified photocopies. Two certified photocopies were released.

What, specifically, do you want them to do differently?

Well, if they have a microfiche on file that would be nice to see.

 

[therival58]

I'm not really very happy that Hawaii made an exception to a policy the established because of statutory restrictions just because the President asked them to.

As I said before, this sets a bad precedent.

What, the federal government stepping on state laws? That's happened since the civil war.

 

[A'isha]

Well, if they have a microfiche on file that would be nice to see.

Even if they did (which they don't seem to - the original is described as a leaf of paper in a bound book), how would they show it? Take a photo of it?

What, the federal government stepping on state laws? That's happened since the civil war.

This isn't a matter of different levels of government in conflict, though. It's a personal issue - Obama asking that his own records be treated differently than how Hawaii treats everyone else's records, just because he's president.

 

[headscratcher4]

The federal government did not step on state law. This wasn't a federal over-ride of a state law, this was a request by the POTUS that asked the State to make an exception to its rules. The state did this volutnarilly, though one can read into it that the power of the Office played some role in the State's acceeding to the request. Outside of a supeona, not sure how a "federal" agency would get access to this underlying record. Than again, it is not the record that any federal agency would use for proving birth for the purposes of a passport, security clearance, etc.

So far as the Government (the institution and not the person of the president) is concerned the Certified COLB is dispositive of the issue of birth, and so far as hawaii is concerned the Certified COLB is prima facia evidence that the state certifies that the document is real and reflects information collected by the state...ie that Obama was born in the state.

This document is a side show. Period. End of story.

 

[CurtC]

It's a personal issue - Obama asking that his own records be treated differently than how Hawaii treats everyone else's records, just because he's president.

I guess anyone who was born in Hawaii could write a similar letter to the Director of Health and ask for copies. If someone really really needed it, she may just make an exception for Joe Blow also. Obama's lawyer made a pretty good case in her letter.

I will grant, however, that Obama is a lot more likely to get a "yes" answer than Joe Blow from Peoria.

 

[boyntonstu]

I was away and I came back thinking LONG FORM?

Didn't they claim that there is no LONG FORM?

What's going on?

 

[kookbreaker]

I was away and I came back thinking LONG FORM?

Didn't they claim that there is no LONG FORM?

What's going on?

What's going on is that you weren't paying attention.

 

[Spindrift]

I was away and I came back thinking LONG FORM?

Didn't they claim that there is no LONG FORM?

What's going on?

It's been explained, just go back a few days in the thread.

 

[Upchurch]

Birthers nuts?

I don't think so.

Didn't they claim that there is no LONG FORM?

What's going on?

Didn't you claim that Birthers weren't nuts?

What's going on?

 

[dvictr]

Obama releasing this "obamanation of a document"(wow, what a good pun), has re-ignited the birther flame.. he made the situation worst!!

 

[headscratcher4]

no, "wurst"...

 

[anduin]

We should expect to see two layers if OCR was used, text and everything else.

That is a big IF. How do you know they used OCR at all? It is perfectly possible to scan directly into a PDF file not using OCR. I have tested this with several scans I have in my computer and opening some of them with Illustrator (CS3) shows several layers. Some of them don't, but this seems to depend on what software was used to create the scan and the PDF. In fact, I found layers in most of the documents I tried, which leads me to believe that this is normal behaviour, just as most people who know about Adobe products can tell you about.

In my experience, people online tend to have completely wrong notions about layers, curves and masks.

 

[therival58]

Even if they did (which they don't seem to - the original is described as a leaf of paper in a bound book), how would they show it? Take a photo of it?

Sure, why not? Makes more sense to me than taking the time to create a digital copy.

 

[Swagomatic]

Here's an editorial from The NY Times. It sums up the futility of dealing with this issue and its implicit racism. A Certificate of Embarrassment

 

[CORed]

At least they didn't go around making the ludicrous claim that Obama could not release his long-form birth certificate. That was one looney thing to claim but incredibly some Obama defenders did that, over and over again. Said "he couldn't"; that it was "impossible", etc, etc,.....I even posted he could have something the next day, and well, the next day Obama posted for the world to see.

And yet the fact I and others were right on the money doesn't seem to have affected others that made such ludicrous claims that the president of the United States could not get a copy of his birth certificate.

I'm going to break with most of the poster here and say that yes, you and BeAChooser were right that being president, Obama could get a copy of his "long form" birth certificate by asking the state of Hawii for it, as he has obviously done.

However, there were many things that one or both of you were wrong about:

That anybody could get their "long form" from the state of Hawaii.

That the lack of a long form raised any legitimate doubts about Obama's birthplace.

That there ever was anything remotely resembling a reasonable doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii.

That there was any reason, beyond attempting to quell the rantings of you and many other irrational people like you, for Obama to release his "long form".

There are also long lists of things unrelated to the topic of this thread, in fact, much too long to produce here, that you and BeAChooser are laughably wrong about, so don't get too worked up over the fact that you, pretty much by accident, managed to get this one minor point right.

 

[Unabogie]

So the two other sources, MyBarackObama.com campaign website and William Addams Reitwiesner, genealogist at the Library of Congress got their info from the highschool newspaper aswell?

As was pointed out earlier in this very thread, that wasn't from the Obama campaign, it was from someone's blog post on their website, which allowed anyone to post anything they wanted.