Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[Sledge]

"That infant has clearly been photoshopped!"

"I can tell by some of the pixels."

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Ahhh, joy. I just saw a birther on another forum who said the long-form was forged because - get this - when he opens the .pdf in Adobe Illustrator (why that and not Acrobat I can't answer), he gets separate layers.

Separate layers. This is the reason he disbelieves it.

And when it was pointed out that, on an import, when Illustrator doesn't recognize a font, it does an outline trace and creates a layer for each different thing it detects, what do you all think he did? Hint: The answer doesn't include the words "acknowldged" or "admitted".

 

[Juniversal]

Ahhh, joy. I just saw a birther on another forum who said the long-form was forged because - get this - when he opens the .pdf in Adobe Illustrator (why that and not Acrobat I can't answer), he gets separate layers.

Separate layers. This is the reason he disbelieves it.

And when it was pointed out that, on an import, when Illustrator doesn't recognize a font, it does an outline trace and creates a layer for each different thing it detects, what do you all think he did? Hint: The answer doesn't include the words "acknowldged" or "admitted".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgVIei87oFo The birthers will NEVER be satisfied.

Going through a few pages this thread and doing a quick google search on a few of their claims I easily find contradictory evidence proving them false.

One guy even claimed Kenya was known as British East Africa Protectorate until 1963 and it couldn't have said his father was born in Kenya since it was called Kenya back then. Quick google search proves it was known as British East Africa Protectorate up until 1920. NOT 1963 (Kenya gained independence from Britain in 1963 and abandoned the colony title). These people are a lost cause (not that that was up for dispute).

 

[Taarkin]

And when it was pointed out that, on an import, when Illustrator doesn't recognize a font, it does an outline trace and creates a layer for each different thing it detects, what do you all think he did? Hint: The answer doesn't include the words "acknowldged" or "admitted".

Tell him to open up a picture of the constitution...

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

even though Obama just rereleased his birth certificate, Birther loons think it's fake. Are these tinfoil hatters any different than 9/11 Truthers or religious nuts ?



Truther- '9/11 was an inside job!'
Debunker- 'Can you prove that it was?'
Truther- 'Can you prove that it wasn't?'


Birther- 'Obama's birth certificate is a fake!'
Debubker- 'Can you prove it's a fake?'
Birther- 'Can you prove that it isn't?'


Theist-'God exists!'
Debunker- 'Can you prove he/it exists?'
theist- 'Can you prove he/it doesn't exist?'

 

[SpitfireIX]

Possibly helpful:

Andrew Jackson's parents emigrated to the U.S. from Ireland. Jackson is the only president having two immigrant parents. Woodrow Wilson and Thomas Jefferson's mothers were both born in England. James Buchanan and Chester Arthur's fathers were born in Ireland. Herbert Hoover’s mother was born in Ontario, Canada, and Barack Obama's father was born in Kenya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...l_candidates_whose_eligibility_was_questioned

Jackson and Jefferson are irrelevant to the discussion, as they were both American citizens at the adoption of the Constitution, and were thus grandfathered in as eligible for the Presidency, irrespective of whether they were considered "natural-born citizens." I'd also like to point out that claiming that their parents were "immigrants" is somewhat misleading; they were all British subjects prior to 1776, just as the parents of the other early Presidents were.

Wilson's and Hoover's mothers were automatically naturalized by their marriages to American citizens before their sons were born, under the Naturalization Act of 1855. Therefore, both men were born in America to two American citizens. This would fall under any reasonable definition of "natural-born citizen."

Buchanan was born in 1791, in Pennsylvania. His father had immigrated from Ireland in 1783. Pennsylvania had adopted a naturalization law in 1776; whether the elder Buchanan was ever naturalized is unknown, but there is no known record that he was. This makes Buchanan's "natural-born citizen" status murky. But this never became an issue in the Presidential campaign of 1856.

The case of Arthur is the only one that is on point. From Wikipedia:

Chester A. Arthur (1829–1886), 21st president of the United States, was rumored to have been born in Canada. This was never demonstrated by his Democratic opponents, although Arthur Hinman, an attorney who had investigated Arthur's family history, raised the objection during his vice-presidential campaign and after the end of his Presidency. Arthur was born in Vermont to a U.S. citizen mother and a father from Ireland, who was eventually naturalized as a U.S. citizen. Despite the fact that his parents took up residence in the United States somewhere between 1822 and 1824, Chester Arthur additionally began to claim between 1870 and 1880 that he had been born in 1830, rather than in 1829, which only caused minor confusion and was even used in several publications. Arthur was sworn in as president when President Garfield died after being shot. Since his Irish father William was naturalized 14 years after Chester Arthur's birth, his citizenship status at birth is unclear, because he was born before the 1868 ratification of the 14th Amendment, which provided that any person born on United States territory and being subject to the jurisdiction thereof was considered a born U.S. citizen, and because he was a British subject at birth by patrilineal jus sanguinis. Arthur's natural-born citizenship status is therefore equally unclear. [notes omitted]

 

[mike3]

You know, it looks like that no matter what comes out they will never concede. The "birthers" have made up their mind that he was born in Kenya and _NOTHING_ will sway them otherwise. It doesn't matter what documents are released -- anything that disagrees will _ALWAYS_ be labeled as fake. Their mind is made up, and they're interpreting evidence to support theory, not the other way around.

 

[ryanebelhar]

"obama blinked"

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=292213

I no longer have any tears, therefore I no longer weep for the future of humanity

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

You know, it looks like that no matter what comes out they will never concede. The "birthers" have made up their mind that he was born in Kenya and _NOTHING_ will sway them otherwise. It doesn't matter what documents are released -- anything that disagrees will _ALWAYS_ be labeled as fake. Their mind is made up, and they're interpreting evidence to support theory, not the other way around.

That's the nature of conspiracy nuts, be them 9/11 Truthers or birthers.

They've already made up their minds, and choose to ignore that fact they have no proof, or they dimiss evidence that contradicts their theories.
They fail to understand that the burden is on them to produce the evidence to back their claims. in contrast, they feel it is the burden of those who reject the conspiracies to prove them wrong

 

[BeAChooser]

If you do not believe the current document available to verify his birth is factual, despite the relevant authorizing agency of the Hawaiian government stating it is 100% correct, why would you believe any other document produced by the same agency regardless of it's content?

LOL! Your question starts with a false assumption. I never said I didn't believe the COLB. I said I harbored some doubts given Obama's behavior vis a vis the long form and other matters, but that doesn't mean I didn't believe the truth of it's specific contents. I certainly believe he was born. And in case you missed it ("these threads move fast and things slip by", you know), I was on the record saying exactly that. In fact, I stated that I certainly hoped everything in the COLB was accurate and that Obama was born in the US given the Constitutional crisis that would ensue should it turn out he wasn't. Because that wouldn't be good for the country. But in any case, now you will be able to see what I will do given that Obama released his so-called long form birth certificate this morning (in fact he released a certified one!). No guessing or speculation will be needed now.

But before I show my reaction to it's contents and talk about its implications (in my next post), shouldn't there be a bit of egg on the faces of all those on this thread who claimed that it was "impossible" for Obama to get his long form birth certificate because Hawaii doesn't give it out to anyone. On all those faces who insisted that doing so would be against the law? Who insisted that Obama is not above the law? And shouldn't there be a bit of egg on the face of those in the Obama administration, Hawaiian government and mainstream media who declared the same thing while demeaning those you folks label birthers as stupid? You do remember all those claims and adhominems, don't you fine folks? Hmmmm?

I think I deserve an apology from all those who said I was wrong in suggesting that Obama could get and publish the long form, if he wanted? Let me specifically name some of these people:

Remember when I suggested that surely Hawaii would not refuse a request from Obama to release his long form, and beren responded "The president is not above the law"? Well is he, beren? Do you remember calling me a "racist" simply because I wished to see an "innocuous" long form birth certificate released for the good of the country? Well given that the WhiteHouse stated they released the long form *for the good of the country*, does that make the WhiteHouse racist? Hmmmm?

Remember ANTPogo telling me that I was ignoring "every single statement … snip … from Hawaii officials about how the 'long form' simply cannot be released" and then doing a "facepalm" and calling me "disingenuously dishonest" for suggesting it could? Remember him calling me "stupid" for suggesting it? And in post after post after post, he repeated the same claim (that releasing it would be illegal) and voiced the same adhominems towards me and "birthers". Remember him posting "So, you want President Obama to completely disregard Hawaii state law by either making some sort of executive fiat order, or by coercing state officials to break their own laws?" Remember his saying "So, have you found all those Hawaiians who have obtained certified copies of their 'long form' original certificates post-2001 yet? You know, like you claim your pseudonymous blogger is right about, and Hawaii state officials are wrong about?" And when Fukino and Tuchman finally admitted a few days ago that Obama could get a long form, remember ANTPogo insisting he still wouldn't be able to get a certified one? He said "Nothing Obama can do will get him a certified copy of his long form. N .. O .. T .. H .. I .. N .. G." Well who is "facepalming" now, ANTPogo, because the one he got in 2011 is indeed certified? Whose sources turned out to be correct? Mine. Guess WND was right after all. And I guess those regulations you said can't be changed "on a whim", actually can, just like I said.

Remember headscratcher4 telling me that "NO one, not the president of the United States, Not Donald Trump, has legal access to the so-called original. No request of the president to the state to violate its own law can or should be honored." Given what just occurred, will you apologize headscratcher? Hmmmm?

And Redtail. I think Obama just gave you the answer to the question you kept regurgitating over and over in a sanctimonious manner because you refused to accept the evidence (my quotes from Hawaiian law) that I did supply you. This question … "So... Bac, when will you be posting the slightest amount of evidence that Obama could release his long form/original/what ever birth certificate if he wanted to? Tell you what, I'll make it easy for you. Just provide someone with the long form bc from Hawaii that they got on or after 2008. Go." Well, Redtail … here's one: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/longformbirthcertificate.pdf . Now aren't you feeling a wee bit foolish? Hmmmmm? You should.

Arus808. Remember his telling me that the doctor who delivered Obama was named West? ANTPogo also claimed that. Well guess what? That's not the name on the long form, is it? Remember Arus808 insisting that Hawaiian Law prevented the release of his long form even after I provided the exact language in the laws that allows that? Remember his claiming "If [Obama] wants to see his record on file in person, he can go to the Department Of Health and do so. He cannot however, get a copy of it (via photocopy, xerox or digital scan). He can only receive what he already has."? Remember Arus808 proclaiming that "To get Hawaii to rel[e]ase anything more, the GOVERNOR and the House and Senate of Hawaii will have to draft a law/bill that would make vital records more open. Not going to happen."? And when Tuchman admitted that Obama could get a long form, remember Arus808 declaring "it won't be certified by the STate of Hawaii". Why even this morning he was saying "Keep in mind, that if you do file an FOIA request and eventually get a copy, the Hawaii Health Department will NOT certify it. You simply get a photocopy and that's it". He even repeated that claim a second time this morning, only this time putting it in big red letters highlighted by yellow to increase its *authority*. For which we now have *prima facie* evidence he was 100% wrong. So isn't it ironic that at one point Arus808 called me a "know nothing"? Well, well … look who turned out to be the REAL "know nothing"?

And CptColumbo … I guess I was right about Fukino's ability to stand up to the President of the US and you were wrong. And I don't think they even had to overturn Hawaiian law like you kept claiming, either. Do you? Hmmmmm? And I guess I was also right about Obama having a "direct and tangible interest". And you were wrong when you said he did not.

And how about kookbreaker. Regarding my assertion that the DoH can issue a "certified copy" of "any" record for an applicant with a "direct and tangible interest in the record", he told me "you just aren't reading that law correctly." Still think that? Don't you think Obama just proved what I claimed? Hmmmm? Of course this very morning you did post "He still can't get around the fact that the State of Hawaii's officials just don't agree with "BeAChooser, Soooper leegal Geenius". Well, KB, I may not be a Soooper leegal Geenius, but you were the one who was completely wrong on this one. Weren't you?

Newtons Bit posted on his *blog* *his* interpretation of Hawaiian Law. Said it debunked eveything I said about Hawaiian Law. Hey, NB, looks like randman was right when he said "He can request it be certified and have it tomorrow if he wanted." And you were wrong. Now are you going to flee "like a coward" or admit I was right after all? Hmmmmmm?

A_Laughing_Boy said "At this point, the long game is to get the President to request privately that they just release the long form (which contains no relevant additional information) even though the law says they can't." So which is it, ALB? Has Hawaii just violated their laws or was I right in saying they could release a copy of the long form to Obama if he just asked? Hmmmmm?

And finally we have Sabrina. She said "BAC, your arguments are idiotic". She said "I for one think people like BaC and randman over here are appallingly ignorant". She said "No, the state of HAWAII cannot provide the copy." That Obama "could file a FOIA request to view the long form", "subsequently make a copy himself" "BUT IT WOULD NOT BE CERTIFIED BY THE STATE AS A LEGITIMATE DOCUMENT." She even wrote that in big red capital letters to make her *claim* more authoritative. Can you imagine her disappointment when Hawaii did in fact provide Obama with a copy and it turns out to be certified. I guess randman and I aren't the ones who were *ignorant* after all. And seriously, was Sabrina able to substantiate *anything* she claimed … other than her own personal history? Hmmmmm?

And speaking of state officials, even Tuchman must be a bit embarrassed having told everyone just this week that it would take 4 to 6 weeks for Obama to get his long form if he requested it with a FOIA request. Which leads to the question, when did Obama request the certified long form that was just released? The certification is stamped April 25, 2011. So when did he request it? April 24th? And if he could get it that quick and had no fear publishing it, why didn't he just do that to satisfy Lakin and save the government the expense of a trial and the destruction of an otherwise fine military officer? Hmmmmmm?

 

[kookbreaker]

Once again, BAC is the football player who draws a taunting penalty when the other teams scores a touchdown.

 

[Unabogie]

Lakin is now requesting a Presidential pardon. I say not so fast! I still have my doubts about this certificate and until those doubts are satisfied I won't accept such a pardon as legitimate!

 

[Puppycow]

Like I said, ANT and others were laughably wrong. Obama could have his birth certificate released and certified the next day. Anyone with a brain knew that.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pd

The sad thing is why would he put the nation through such a mess by not just releasing this a few years ago?

He didn't put the nation through this. The morons who wouldn't accept his short form birth certificate did. The president shouldn't have to respond to idiotic questions from idiotic people.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Yeah. I wrote that under the current scheme there was no way to get a long form, as Hawaii doesn't offer them. They made an exception on behalf of the President, which I think is wrong and an overreach by the executive branch. No apology is necessary on my part.

 

[332nd]

There's our lil trooper!

Obama ended it earlier than I would have liked but it still works.

I think Obama just gave you the answer to the question you kept regurgitating over and over in a sanctimonious manner because you refused to accept the evidence (my quotes from Hawaiian law) (a legal, certified document from Hawaii)that I he did supply you.

(Anyone wanna bet I'll have to explain it to him?)

 

[Bob001]

... Which leads to the question, when did Obama request the certified long form that was just released? The certification is stamped April 25, 2011. So when did he request it? April 24th?

The correspondence is on the White House web site. The letter from the President's lawyer requesting an exception to established procedures was dated April 22. The response was dated April 25.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

If Obama didn't do this earlier, it's because as a lawyer and a reasonable person, he understood that the official form he released in 2008 satisfied all rational questions about this matter. What he didn't understand was the singlemindedness of the conspiracy theorists.

 

[Ausmerican]

The correspondence is on the White House web site. The letter from the President's lawyer requesting an exception to established procedures was dated April 22. The response was dated April 25.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

If Obama didn't do this earlier, it's because as a lawyer and a reasonable person, he understood that the official form he released in 2008 satisfied all rational questions about this matter. What he didn't understand was the singlemindedness of the conspiracy theorists.

Calling them singleminded is giving them credit for one mind too many.

 

[michaelsuede]

The official long form birth certificate from the White House website is a forgery.

http://www.fascistsoup.com/2011/04/...ficate-proven-to-be-fake-hours-after-release/

 

[michaelsuede]

Official Long Form Birth Certificate Is A Forgery

All media in this post is hosted on my servers. This post content comes from my personal blog.


Click through to see this post on ATS.

Seriously, you’ll crap your pants.

The people who doctored the image of Obama’s birth cert were stupid enough not to merge the image layers of their forgery before converting it into a pdf document. (technically they are clipping masks, which are slightly different than layers).

Hence, there are image layers that can be pulled out of the document when it is imported into Adobe Illustrator.

Here’s the layer that contains the stamps:

This means that the stamps, the lettering, and the background are all separate entities within the image that were layered together digitally. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY this officially released document is an original scanned image of Obama’s birth cert. An original pdf of a scanned image would have only one layer – the scanned image itself. And certainly there would be no ‘stamp’ layers.

I have verified the ATS author’s claims. Here is an image I created myself by moving the layers in the official document:

Here is my altered version of that pdf.

Alex Jones actually opens up Adobe Illustrator and points out the same things I just did in this post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g30VCl_cgk

A few more points of note from

www.thesmokinggun.com…

• If the original document was in a bound volume (as reflected by the curvature of the left hand side of the certificate), how can the green patterned background of the document’s safety paper be so seamless?

• Why, if Obama was born on August 4, 1961, was the “Date Accepted by Local Reg.” four days later on August 8, 1961?

• What is the significance of the smudges in the box containing the name of the reported attendant?

• David A. Sinclair, the M.D. who purportedly signed the document, died nearly eight years ago at age 81. So he is conveniently unavailable to answer questions about Obama’s reported birth.

• In the “This Birth” box there are two mysterious Xs above “Twin” and “Triplet.” Is there a sibling or two unaccounted for?

• What is the significance of the mysterious numbers, seen vertically, on the document’s right side?

• Finally, the “Signature of Local Registrar” in box 21 may be a desperate attempt at establishing the document’s Hawaiian authenticity. Note to forgers: It is spelled “Ukulele.”

 

[timhau]

I think Obama was actually born on the Moon. The Apollo Moon Mission was real, but it was conducted only to get him to Earth.