Norman Mineta Testimony

[pomeroo]

As a matter of fact, I think this applies more to you pomeroo, not me.
I am merely presenting evidence, you are denying it exists.


By the way, I just listened to the voice recording of counter-terrorism 'czar' Dick Clark describing the events immediately after the TT were hit.

He describes how he asks Mineta to come through to the Situation room. They talk, and then Clark suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the PEOC.
After describing a few other actions, Clark then states "it was now nine twenty-eight"

0928ET

Is Clark a liar ? No, I don't think so.

You just proved that you are lying, not merely making a mistake. Yes, they talk and then he asks Mineta to come to the Situation room. What time do you suppose Mineta could have arrived there?

 

[pomeroo]

As a matter of fact, I think this applies more to you pomeroo, not me.
I am merely presenting evidence, you are denying it exists.


By the way, I just listened to the voice recording of counter-terrorism 'czar' Dick Clark describing the events immediately after the TT were hit.

He describes how he asks Mineta to come through to the Situation room. They talk, and then Clark suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the PEOC.
After describing a few other actions, Clark then states "it was now nine twenty-eight"

0928ET

Is Clark a liar ? No, I don't think so.

Richard Clarke is really, really anti-Bush. Why do you suppose he rejects the fantasy moonshine? Why doesn't he believe that Cheney confessed publicly to treason and mass murder? What is he and and everyone else missing that only the tinfoil-hat brigade can see?

 

[pomeroo]

As a matter of fact, I think this applies more to you pomeroo, not me.
I am merely presenting evidence, you are denying it exists.


By the way, I just listened to the voice recording of counter-terrorism 'czar' Dick Clark describing the events immediately after the TT were hit.

He describes how he asks Mineta to come through to the Situation room. They talk, and then Clark suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the PEOC.
After describing a few other actions, Clark then states "it was now nine twenty-eight"

0928ET

Is Clark a liar ? No, I don't think so.

Hmmm. In post #31, you wrote:

"So I repeat, it's very likely that Mineta was at the PEOC at 0925 as he stated."

Yup, Mineta was in the PEOC at 0925, but Clarke talked to him and asked him to come to the Situation room at 0928.

No problem.

 

[MikeW]

No, the evidence suggests otherwise...

First of all, I notice that what you are using here is not from Mineta's testimony under oath, but merely an interview for the 'American Academy of Achievement'.
This interview is about his life, and although factual, it is also somewhat colourful, and Mineta will be aware that it has to be 'interesting'.
So it's understandable that Mineta adds a little flavour... do you imagine him really saying to his driver "Is there something wrong with this picture? We are driving in, and everybody else is running away." ?

These are your sources, Terry. You bought up CNN. You want to tell us Mineta is reliable. So again, here's Mineta at what must be 9:15 or earlier:

As we went in West Executive Drive, people pouring out of the Executive Office building, people running out of the White House

Here's your CNN quote describing the scene at 9:47-ish:

Just moments ago - they started slowly evacuating the White House about 30 minutes ago - and then in the last five minutes, people have come running out of the White House and the old executive office building

These are different people, in different situations, but they're quite clearly describing the same situation. The timing of the CNN account corresponds with what we know of the evacuation order. Mineta's is thirty minutes too soon. He has the wrong time.

Now, I notice you don't quote anything further from this interview of Mineta. Why not?

Well, according to your timeline, it's known at this point that the Pentagon has been hit at least 10 minutes earlier, so let's look what Mineta says happens next - from his interview which you snipped :

"So I went into the White House and someone said, "You have to be briefed by Dick Clark in the Situation Room." So I went in there, he talked to me for four or five minutes, and he said, "You have got to go to the PEOC." I said, "What's the PEOC?" He said, "That's the Presidential Emergency Operations Center." I said, "I don't know where that is or what it is." There was a Secret Service agent standing there, says, "I will take you." Well, it's that bunker that's way under the White House."

So why did Dick Clark, the counter terrorism chief, NOT mention to Mineta that the Pentagon has been attacked?

We don't know that he didn't. We don't know what they were talking about. Mineta's recollections alone are not the basis for proving anything as they're already plainly incorrect.

 

[MikeW]

By the way, I just listened to the voice recording of counter-terrorism 'czar' Dick Clark describing the events immediately after the TT were hit.

He describes how he asks Mineta to come through to the Situation room. They talk, and then Clark suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the PEOC.
After describing a few other actions, Clark then states "it was now nine twenty-eight"

0928ET

Is Clark a liar ? No, I don't think so.

Interesting. Earlier you were all too willing to dismiss an inconvenient Mineta interview, saying:

First of all, I notice that what you are using here is not from Mineta's testimony under oath, but merely an interview for the 'American Academy of Achievement'.
This interview is about his life, and although factual, it is also somewhat colourful, and Mineta will be aware that it has to be 'interesting'.

However now you're going to rely on Clarke's book??

Still, let's go with it. In this chronology, as you say, he places Mineta's phone call very briefly before 9:28 - basically the call ends, Roger Cressey turns up and he supposedly speaks to Myers. It could be, say, 9:25. But if it was, then Mineta's timeline is already out. He's not turned up yet. He still has to arrive at the White House, presumably go through security, make his way to the situation room, spend 4 or 5 minutes talking to Clarke, then be escorted to the PEOC. He's not going to make it for 9:30, let alone 9:20.

Given that you're using Clarke as a primary source, you might like to note what he says about the evacuation:

[Secret Service Director Brian] Stafford slipped me a note: "Radar shows aircraft headed this way." Secret Service had a system that allowed them to see what the FAA's radar was seeing. "I'm going to empty out the complex." He was ordering the evacuation of the White House.

Ralph Siegler stuck his head into the room, "There has been an explosion in the parking lot, maybe a car bomb!"

That's one block in his book, I've snipped nothing out in between: the evacuation came after Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. He then goes on to describe the scene as "the staff poured out of the White House compound, the Residence, the West Wing and the Executive Office building", people being told to run, very similar to the CNN and Mineta accounts, but after the Pentagon was hit.

 

[CurtC]

Guys, what do you think of this CT that I thought of/made up?

In the reports I've read, the people in the room heard about the shoot-down order from Cheney, not from Bush his own self. Part of the reason that Cheney and Bush were secretive is that Cheney issued the shoot-down order, telling the people in the room that it came from Bush, then he explained to Bush later that he had to agree with Cheney's account.

Could that be?

 

[boloboffin]

Guys, what do you think of this CT that I thought of/made up?

In the reports I've read, the people in the room heard about the shoot-down order from Cheney, not from Bush his own self. Part of the reason that Cheney and Bush were secretive is that Cheney issued the shoot-down order, telling the people in the room that it came from Bush, then he explained to Bush later that he had to agree with Cheney's account.

Could that be?

In the Commission Report, Cheney says he called Bush just after 10 and got the shootdown order. Bush backs this up, and Condi says she heard one side of a telephone call about that time.

Then at 10:20, Cheney gives the shootdown order and someone in the room says that they should get confirmation from the President. Cheney calls Bush and gets the shootdown order at 10:22. This phone call is the only one that appears on phone logs and private diaries like Scooter Libby's and Lynne Cheney's.

The Commission Report leaves it up to us to decide what happened. There was some reason that Cheney and Bush declined to speak to the Commission unless they were allowed to speak together and not under oath.

 

[gumboot]

Still, let's go with it. In this chronology, as you say, he places Mineta's phone call very briefly before 9:28 - basically the call ends, Roger Cressey turns up and he supposedly speaks to Myers. It could be, say, 9:25. But if it was, then Mineta's timeline is already out. He's not turned up yet. He still has to arrive at the White House, presumably go through security, make his way to the situation room, spend 4 or 5 minutes talking to Clarke, then be escorted to the PEOC. He's not going to make it for 9:30, let alone 9:20.

This is a good example of why Clarke's account is wrong.

Myers was on Capitol Hill that morning, and Clarke didn't speak to him until after AA77 hit the Pentagon.

As to why Clarke didn't mention the Pentagon had been hit to Mineta... the answer to that is pretty obvious - he didn't know yet.

-Gumboot

 

[Gravy]

I'll pipe in to this ridiculous issue with the observation that in every 9/11 narrative I've reviewed where major temporal confusion was evident, the narrator thought that less time had passed than in reality.

 

[SDC]

I'll pipe in to this ridiculous issue with the observation that in every 9/11 narrative I've reviewed where major temporal confusion was evident, the narrator thought that less time had passed than in reality.

... which seems to relate to the general perception that, in extraordinarily stressful situation, time seems to compress.

Must be a medical/ psychological elucidation of that point, somewhere.

 

[TerryUK]

You just proved that you are lying, not merely making a mistake.

Don't be foolish, pomeroo.

Yes, they talk and then he asks Mineta to come to the Situation room. What time do you suppose Mineta could have arrived there?

Mineta calls the White House from his car, during the 1.6 mile journey there.
He goes straight to the Situation Room, as Clarke had requested.
He talks briefly to Clarke.
Clarke suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the bunker.

This is still not yet 09.28

 

[TerryUK]

Hmmm. In post #31, you wrote:

"So I repeat, it's very likely that Mineta was at the PEOC at 0925 as he stated."

Yup, Mineta was in the PEOC at 0925, but Clarke talked to him and asked him to come to the Situation room at 0928.

No problem.

No, the 0928 was after he'd met and talked with Mineta. See my previous post #51

 

[TerryUK]

In this chronology, as you say, he places Mineta's phone call very briefly before 9:28 - basically the call ends, Roger Cressey turns up and he supposedly speaks to Myers. It could be, say, 9:25. But if it was, then Mineta's timeline is already out. He's not turned up yet. He still has to arrive at the White House, presumably go through security, make his way to the situation room, spend 4 or 5 minutes talking to Clarke, then be escorted to the PEOC. He's not going to make it for 9:30, let alone 9:20.

Yeah, you've got it in the wrong order - Roger Cressey turns up after Mineta has gone to the bunker.

Here's what Clarke says:
"Mineta called in from his car, and I asked him to come directly in to the Situation Room..."
(so obviously Mineta goes there, and they talk briefly )

Clarke says: "I suggested he join the Vice President [in the PEOC]"
(at this point Mineta is escorted to the bunker by an SS agent. )
Clarke continues: "Roger Cressy, my deputy ... [came] through to the Situation Room, I was relieved to see him"

Clake continues, and then describes talking to General Dick Myers via the Pentagon [video] screen...

It is only after this conversation with Myers that Clarke says "It was now nine twenty-eight"


All this matches up with Mineta's own timeline:

Mineta went to the White House by car. The distance was 1.6 miles.
From the car, he phoned the White House, and spoke to Dick Clarke.
Clarke asked Mineta to come directly to the Situation Room.
There, they talked briefly, and Clarke suggested that Mineta should join the Vice President in the PEOC.
It would be several minutes after this that Clarke says "it was now nine twenty-eight".

 

[boloboffin]

Try to make Richard Clarke's account fit any timeline available. I dare you.

 

[TerryUK]

This is a good example of why Clarke's account is wrong.

Myers was on Capitol Hill that morning, and Clarke didn't speak to him until after AA77 hit the Pentagon.



-Gumboot

Clarke spoke to General Myers via the video link, as he states in his account.

 

[boloboffin]

Clarke spoke to General Myers via the video link, as he states in his account.

If he did, it was well after the time he says in his book. General Myers was not there for him to speak to until later.

 

[TerryUK]

Try to make Richard Clarke's account fit any timeline available. I dare you.

It fits Mineta's timeline almost exactly...

Also, don't forget that only five days after 9/11, Cheney said that he (Cheney) was in the PEOC bunker before the Pentagon was hit...

You haven't read the transcript?

 

[pomeroo]

Don't be foolish, pomeroo.

Now, that's rich!

Mineta calls the White House from his car, during the 1.6 mile journey there.
He goes straight to the Situation Room, as Clarke had requested.
He talks briefly to Clarke.
Clarke suggests that Mineta joins the Vice President in the bunker.

This is still not yet 09.28

You are flogging a very dead horse. The reason why Mineta's obviously faulty timeline is of interest only to conspiracy liars is that they can use it to promote an even wilder, more utterly idiotic fantasy: that Dick Cheney confessed publicly to treason and mass murder.

There is a reason why no one found a story here. There is a reason why Mineta's testimony was judged unworthy of inclusion in the 9/11 Commission's final report. As Christopher Kojm observed, "The guy's timeline was completely destroyed."

 

[TerryUK]

Now, that's rich!





You are flogging a very dead horse. The reason why Mineta's obviously faulty timeline is of interest only to conspiracy liars is that they can use it to promote an even wilder, more utterly idiotic fantasy: that Dick Cheney confessed publicly to treason and mass murder.

You keep saying that, but I'm only interested in the evidence.

There is little or no verifiable evidence to prove the 9/11 Commission report, regarding Cheney's timeline.

If there is please show me.

 

[TerryUK]

If he did, it was well after the time he says in his book. General Myers was not there for him to speak to until later.

Listen to this .mp3 of Clarke describing when he spoke to Myers... and then check where Myers was

Listen at 2mins.29sec