New venue for TAM5?

I know that people will think I am saying this because I live near there but this is a serious suggestion, Lake Tahoe. Either South Lake Tahoe (the city on the California side) or Stateline(the city on the Nevada side). Both have hotel rates every bit as cheap as Las Vegas, both have lots of venues that could easily host something the size of TAM, and Stateline has shows and gambling for the people that would miss those things. It also has skiing in the winter and is very close to good places for fishing, hiking and other 'outdoorsy' activites in warmer weather, this cannot be said for Vegas. It is just as easily drivable (albeit in a different direction) for the TAM attendees who come there from California. Plus the lake itself is one of the most beautiful I have ever set my eyes on.

The downsides are that it is COLD with a capital COLD in the winter time up there. Plus it isn't nearlya s easy to get to as Vegas, admittedly, because its airport cannot handle larger planes so many people would have to land in Reno and drive the remaining 30 miles or so (and int he winter time, the pass between Reno and Tahoe is often closed due to winter storms). So it has those flaws.

Just a thought.
 
I think we should have a TAM somewhere in the Smokey Mountains region. Certainly not like Las Vegas, but boy is it ever beautiful. Great if you like hiking and nature. Also cool if you like star gazing.

And, I could drive there.

Just a thought.........
 
Please please PLEASE make up your minds SOON, so we can make our plans from here accordingly. We need to know NOW if we are able to make any effort to attend next year.

Travelling from Australia to the USA in January is absolute HELL to organise - damn near impossible. It's our summer vacation, and when most of the families with kids go to Disneyland, filling up each and every available airline seat. Already, the vast majority of flights across the Pacific from Sydney to LA return for January 2006 (that's 11 months from now) are booked solid. Absolutely no joke - it's easier (and cheaper!) to fly the other way via London to the USA and return, than Sydney to LA and back. But it's the expected hell on your jetlag and accomodation on the way.
 
Zep said:
Travelling from Australia to the USA in January is absolute HELL to organise - damn near impossible. It's our summer vacation, and when most of the families with kids go to Disneyland, filling up each and every available airline seat. Already, the vast majority of flights across the Pacific from Sydney to LA return for January 2006 (that's 11 months from now) are booked solid. Absolutely no joke - it's easier (and cheaper!) to fly the other way via London to the USA and return, than Sydney to LA and back. But it's the expected hell on your jetlag and accomodation on the way.
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It's not just the antipodes. Although it is possible to book from Europe at a relatively late time, it is neither easy or cheap. And the latest news is: Europeans have started visiting the US again, due to a prolonged concern about 9-11. There doesn't seem to be an imminent threat, and the dollar is low, too...

So, dear Americans: Some of you may be able to drive to TAM, but there are a lot of folks who has to fly for a very long time, at a considerably higher cost. If it is a concern of yours that you should travel 2-3 hours more, perhaps you should consider just how privileged you are?

Hm? ;)
 
Zep said:
Please please PLEASE make up your minds SOON, so we can make our plans from here accordingly. We need to know NOW if we are able to make any effort to attend next year.
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Zep, TAM4 in January 2006 is a dead-solid done-deal for Las Vegas, so you can book away (I for one would enjoy meeting you). What we are looking at are the follow-on meetings from there.
 
CFLarsen said:

So, dear Americans: Some of you may be able to drive to TAM, but there are a lot of folks who has to fly for a very long time, at a considerably higher cost. If it is a concern of yours that you should travel 2-3 hours more, perhaps you should consider just how privileged you are?

Hm? ;)
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I think, Claus, that you have to keep in mind that just because a person lobbies for a place near them it is simply becaue it is near them. It can also be because those are the places that person knows best.

For example, Copenhagen might be a fine alternate venue for TAM5. It might not be. I have no idea, I've never been there, so I couldn't hope to make a convincing argument as to why it should be there (or even IF it should be there). My knowledge of the place is limited to what I can get from encyclopedias and tourist brochures and such. But since he lives there, DD could undoubtedly give good reasons it should be there, so could you if that happens to be the part of the country you are from.

Likewise, if I suggest a place near me, it is because I can give more reasons for why it would be a good idea than someone who doesn't live there. It works both ways.
 
Skinny said:
I think we should have a TAM somewhere in the Smokey Mountains region. Certainly not like Las Vegas, but boy is it ever beautiful. Great if you like hiking and nature. Also cool if you like star gazing.
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Who cares? I fly in the day the conference starts, and fly out an hour after it's over. Who has time for all this lollygagging about? Don't tell me all you people are suggesting venues other than Vegas just becaue you plan to blow off a couple of days before and after the conference, spending them sightseeing and dining out with other skeptics.

I'm jealous.

~~ Paul
 
I believe that all future TAMs will be in Los Vegas, because that's where Mr. Randi can call in a few favors and have the Unknown Magician show up if Penn gets sick.
But nothing will top the anecdote about the Second Cuming of Christ.
 
As an untravelled American (I've only been to "foreign" countries I could actually drive to), I can surely be convinced to make a trip across the pond (or the Big Pond, for that matter) to some future TAM, if only to get some ink into my passport.

Come to think of it, I may need to take three or four weeks next fall and make a nice trip to Tokyo, Hong Kong, Taipei, and Sydney. Assuming that it's still safe to be within 5,000 miles of North Korea, of course. And Taipei, for that matter. Any travel advice (other than to avoid insane dictators, especially the short ones with curly 'dos)?

Mike.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
I think, Claus, that you have to keep in mind that just because a person lobbies for a place near them it is simply becaue it is near them. It can also be because those are the places that person knows best.
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Sure. But I also find that Americans generally are not all that willing to travel to Europe for this. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think so.

And we still have to take into account that a New Yorker can go to LA in less time than a Brit can go to NY. It is much, much easier for Americans to travel within the US, than for non-US people to go to the US at all.

Nyarlathotep said:
For example, Copenhagen might be a fine alternate venue for TAM5. It might not be. I have no idea, I've never been there, so I couldn't hope to make a convincing argument as to why it should be there (or even IF it should be there). My knowledge of the place is limited to what I can get from encyclopedias and tourist brochures and such. But since he lives there, DD could undoubtedly give good reasons it should be there, so could you if that happens to be the part of the country you are from.
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I live close to CPH, and have lived there, as well. I go there a couple of times a week, so I kinda know the place. It's great, actually. ;)
 
I LOVE Vegas!!!! Been there many times - got married on the Strip!
It's a direct flight from London (10 hours - but then so is most of the US:( ) and once you're there, everything is relatively close. If you need to escape the neon for a while, Red Rock Canyon, Mount Charlston and Lake Mead are easily drivable...

And, importantly for TAM I imagine, Vegas is the home of magic... (so glad I got to see Siegfried and Roy before the unfortunate tiger incident :(

I will try and make TAM4 if at all possible...

Just my 2 cents worth.
DeVega
 
Just a thought on the US/Europe thing... Do you think there would be interest in doing a Euro-TAM?

WorldCon (SFF Convention) tends to do every 2nd year in the US and alternate years elsewhere. This year Glasgow!:D Next year LA, I think... Of course the thing with the WorldCons is that they have a devoted committee in each city who have to win a Bid in order to host - rather like the Olympics really!

DeVega
 
CFLarsen said:
Sure. But I also find that Americans generally are not all that willing to travel to Europe for this. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think so. *snip*
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I ran a poll about this after TAM2, and IIRC there were almost as many Americans (percentage-wise) willing to go to Europe for TAM as Europeans willing to go to the US.

The big obstacles seem to be the cost of going to Europe (just like the cost of going to the US for us) and, unless we´re talking about the UK, not speaking the local language.
 
Hutch said:
Zep, TAM4 in January 2006 is a dead-solid done-deal for Las Vegas, so you can book away (I for one would enjoy meeting you). What we are looking at are the follow-on meetings from there.
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OK, but it would be VERY nice to have this emanate(sp?) from the JREF office and show on the website. Don't have to have specific venues and schedules, etc, but just the comfort of knowing that if I book a non-refundable flight there now that I won't be left standing in the lobby of a Vegas hotel looking like a goof on my own while everyone else has gone off to Orlando or somewhere.

And if what you say IS so, what's the point of this thread?
 
CFLarsen said:
Sure. But I also find that Americans generally are not all that willing to travel to Europe for this. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think so.

And we still have to take into account that a New Yorker can go to LA in less time than a Brit can go to NY. It is much, much easier for Americans to travel within the US, than for non-US people to go to the US at all.
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Well, I can only speak for myself (though I am pretty confident Chani would agree) but I would go if I could afford it and stay home if I couldn't. Just the same as if it is held in Vegas.

I will admit that holding it in Europe would make it less likely that I could afford it, but on the other hand I am pretty sure that it would attract European skeptics who couldn't or wouldn't go to a TAM in the US. So it would balance out.



CFLarsen said:
I live close to CPH, and have lived there, as well. I go there a couple of times a week, so I kinda know the place. It's great, actually. ;)
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Cool. Between you and DD you guys almost have me convinced to make Denmark a stop on that European vacation I plan on taking someday.
 
Chaos said:
I ran a poll about this after TAM2, and IIRC there were almost as many Americans (percentage-wise) willing to go to Europe for TAM as Europeans willing to go to the US.

The big obstacles seem to be the cost of going to Europe (just like the cost of going to the US for us) and, unless we´re talking about the UK, not speaking the local language.
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The language thing doesn't bother me because I am quite confident that I can find an English speaker in just about any place a tourist like me might go.
 
Greetings,

To begin, the poll is asking if the possible TAM attendees would prefer Vegas or "Some other US city at the same price." In my opinion, that is not a very fair way to word the question because there is so much more to it than that.

In order for some other US city to match the price that is possible in Vegas (including airfare, hotel, meals, etc...), the attendees would have to give up a large number of the things that Vegas offers (including tremendous variety in regard to food, entertainment, activities, etc). And do not forget that Vegas also offers connections to some very influential people that assist in many ways with the event.

Sure, there are places that may be able to compete in regard to "the same price" but I believe that too many other positive aspects would be sacrificed.

My view is that if you want to go to TAM, go to it--and let it exist wherever it is best for JREF. If you are looking to go on vacation, that is something that can be done separately. After all, TAM is a fund-raising event for JREF, and also a great conference for rational thinkers. It is not supposed to be a travel club.


Keep the change,
Rick
 
Rick Maue said:


My view is that if you want to go to TAM, go to it--and let it exist wherever it is best for JREF. If you are looking to go on vacation, that is something that can be done separately. After all, TAM is a fund-raising event for JREF, and also a great conference for rational thinkers. It is not supposed to be a travel club.


Keep the change,
Rick
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Certainly, but there is nothing wrong with discussing whether or not Vegas is indeed the place where it is the best for the JREF. A lot of people are going to want to plan sightseeing time around the conference so I think that it is incumbent on the JREF to try to factor in whether that fact is going to be enough of an influence as to how many people attend, and if it is a factor, react accordingly.

Besides, this bunch wil discuss ANYTHING to death.:)
 
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