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Near death experiences

slipknot0129 said:
Life is perfect now, it will be even better when you die.
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If something is better than perfect, then the other thing wasn't perfect. Ini other words, it is impossible by definition to improve on perfect. Is English your first language?
 
slipknot0129 said:
If nothing happened after death, then people wouldn't be having near death experiences.
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NDEs do not appear to have anything to do with actually being "near death". For example, people who are actually near death, say from a random gunshot, do not report having an NDE just before the the shot is fired. Shouldn't they have an NDE since, after all, they are on the brink of the after-life?
 
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slipknot0129 said:
If nothing happened after death, then people wouldn't be having near death experiences.
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People who experienced an N"D"E did not, in fact, die. Calling an N"D"E an example of what it will be like to be dead is like calling a prom date an example of what it will be like to be married...
 
As others have been saying, Near Death is neither Death nor After Death (aka Dead). Death, itself, is not a place or state of being, but a line which one crosses between Life and Dead. In this sense, Near Death doesn't even exist. Moreover, so far as is known, it's a one-way trip; no one has ever come back across the line. There's Life, Death and Dead. That's it, nothing else, barring evidence to the contrary.

That said, there is absolutely nothing in atheism that prohibits the possibility of an Afterlife. Mind, there is no concrete evidence of an Afterlife, but neither is there a concrete reason to flat out state that there is no life after death.

OTOH, critical thinking (not atheism) tells us that there is reason to believe/suspect that the Afterlife *shouldn't* (not doesn't) exist. Why shouldn't it? Because the concept of the Afterlife violates those principles and mechanics by which we already know the universe operates. I'm neither a scientist nor an engineer, but it works something like this:

There are two states of existence, Energy and Matter. When the body dies, it stops taking in food (i.e. fuel) for regenerating the energy required to repair itself and carry on other operations (a discussion of the biological steps between food and energy are irrelevant here). Without the energy to repair itself, the body rots and decomposes, gradually releasing its constituent matter, composed of atoms and molecules, into the general environment, and these atoms and molecules take their own constituent energy with them.

In sum, the Soul/Spirit/Ghost, which of necessity must be an entity composed entirely of energy, would not have any energy available with which to form its initial existence, or any associated matter (ie a physical state) by which its energy could be replentished.

Back in the days when digital calculators and cell phones were two entirely different machines, I participated in an online conversation where someone asked what happened to you when you die. Someone (not me) answered by asking, "What happens to the numbers when you turn off your calculator?" I still think that is a pretty good analogy.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
 
slipknot0129 said:
If nothing happened after death, then people wouldn't be having near death experiences.
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Do you also believe that people who take hallucinogens are seeing alternate realities rather than having chemical induced hallucinations?
 
Argumemnon said:
People of different religions or beliefs see different things, so you can't use those who agree with you as evidence that your belief is correct.
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Exactly.

I bring this up a lot but have never once gotten a reply from the glitter-slinger du jour, but my now ex-gf was in a coma for a week or something like that about fifteen years ago (closer to twenty years ago by now) and had had a Near Death Experience. Or so she believed.

It changed her outlook entirely, she claimed. She said she saw Source, that all religions are a lie, we are all One with Source (she hated to use the word 'God' but would happily equivocate for the theists she was talking to/with) and she was brought back to Earth to be the savior of all mankind (her words).

My question is how do I know she's wrong and you're right? Or that she's right and you're wrong?

My guess is if you even answer it, you'll probably equivocate on the word 'god' with 'Source' as well, pretending that they're the same thing/concept.

She believes this with the entirety of her being and even sucks up the New-Age woo garbage of claiming that Quantum Physics is evidence that Source exists and that "science" supports this ridiculous worldview. (Refer to "What the Bleep Do We Know?" as to the kind of crap she adores. She made me watch that movie numerous times. Ugh.)
 
The Norseman said:
I bring this up a lot but have never once gotten a reply from the glitter-slinger du jour, but my now ex-gf was in a coma for a week or something like that about fifteen years ago (closer to twenty years ago by now) and had had a Near Death Experience. Or so she believed.

It changed her outlook entirely, she claimed. She said she saw Source, that all religions are a lie, we are all One with Source (she hated to use the word 'God' but would happily equivocate for the theists she was talking to/with) and she was brought back to Earth to be the savior of all mankind (her words).
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1) Did all of that have anything to do with the "ex-" part of ex-gf?

2) Did she start printing her own holy texts by now?
 
Argumemnon said:
1) Did all of that have anything to do with the "ex-" part of ex-gf?
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Heh. No, actually. I think, to her credit, she let me live with the current 'delusions' that reality is what we see, there's no such thing as 'god', etc. And I let her live her life with her delusions too. We both were tactful with one another, I think, and we tried having thoughtful discussions regarding her beliefs. She was actually pleased that I came from the more skeptical orientation because she knew she'd have to learn how to overcome objections that would arise if and when she tried convincing other people.

We actually had a really good relationship, and sometimes I'm sad that we're no longer together because she was a very kind and gentle woman who worked hard at being in a relationship.

She had suffered from a Traumatic Brain Injury, and it finally came to pass that I somehow got on her bad side and was convinced I betrayed her. Like with her woo, she couldn't see the actual evidence which showed I did nothing to harm her, but it was too late. So, as the great sages of the universe have said, "**** happens."


2) Did she start printing her own holy texts by now?
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Unless she found someone like me to help her out, her brain injury prevented her from being able to write well, so probably not.

I did find a random post from some guy who sounded just like her, though. I saved it for posterity; I might be able to dig it up as an example of the kinds of things she said.
 
slipknot0129 said:
Near death experiences take my fear of death away. They show that there is more to life. Life continues on. It's nothing but love on the other side.
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Oh here we go again ......... the same old NDE canard.

You do know that a considerable amount of research has been done on this subject I suppose. I mean good research, not just a pile of testimonials published by some theist organizations.

Out of body experiences for example have been tested, by asking the patients to identify objects only visible from the out of body vantage point, they found themselves in. Negative I'm afraid.
 
Having been "near dead" after a Heart Attack and I stopped breathing, my entire memory of the experience is that I fell over (fortunately I was in Hospital at the time for a previous Heart Attack) and woke up around 24 Hours later in Intensive Care.

My memory between my collapse and waking up with a bloody great tube down my throat, being attached to about 8 IV's, and having a portable heart monitor with a Pinging Machine is zilch, zero, nada, nothing at all.

This was nine years ago. I got better. Or perhaps I was not "near dead" enough

Norm
 
fromdownunder said:
Having been "near dead" after a Heart Attack and I stopped breathing, my entire memory of the experience is that I fell over (fortunately I was in Hospital at the time for a previous Heart Attack) and woke up around 24 Hours later in Intensive Care.

My memory between my collapse and waking up with a bloody great tube down my throat, being attached to about 8 IV's, and having a portable heart monitor with a Pinging Machine is zilch, zero, nada, nothing at all.

This was nine years ago. I got better. Or perhaps I was not "near dead" enough

Norm
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Thanks for that Norm.

So you had no experience of ascending to some welcoming place with harp music in the air then. Your experience is in line with mine. I don't want to appear to be upstaging you but I have had three close encounters with death.

Almost bleed to death once where I lapsed into unconsciousness. Drowned another time and had to be resuscitated after not breathing for some minutes. The third and last time I spent a month in intensive care, intubated and unconscious the whole time, as a result being infected by scrub typhus.

During non of the above did I have any out of body experiences like ascending to some welcoming place or descending to a not so welcoming one.
 
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